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Post by Fan Of The Game on Mar 10, 2005 10:44:56 GMT -5
I know you like stats, so statistically I'll say the reason I struggle watching him is because his turnovers per minute are higher than anyone in the rotation and his points per shot are the lowest.
The reason I give Wallace more leeway? First he's a freshman and second:
6-8 from 3 point range for 20 points at Davidson
13 points versus Clemson
11 points versus Rutgers
12 points at Syracuse
He's not a consistent scorer in the least. But from time to time Wallace can fill in and be our 3rd scorer. Against better teams (like tonight), in the face of adversity, I can at least say, "Eh, maybe Wallace will come through with 15 points and help us win". With Ray I'm more of a "Eh, maybe Ray won't turn over the ball a lot and we'll lose by less".
I don't dislike Ray, I'm just looking forward to getting an upgrade at his spot in the rotation next year. For now, I completely understand that we have who we have so Reed is going to play some minutes. I accept our personnel limitations.
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HoyaSox04
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Founding member of the ROCK-tavius Spann Fan Club.
Posts: 726
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Post by HoyaSox04 on Mar 10, 2005 10:45:28 GMT -5
I agree completely with you, Cambridge - great post. I just don't understand the hatred people have for Ray - especially the people who sit in the YA section. It's hard to comprehend sometimes.
I can't remember exactly when it was last night, but Ray was boxing out someone who had to have had 6-7 inches on him (Sweet?) and just absolutely SKYED to grab a board - I wish our other players could use his rebounding technique...
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Mar 10, 2005 10:45:33 GMT -5
I agree with love. Give the kid a break. We need everyone to step up tonight and boards are going to be crucial. We also can't have one of our classic five plus minute scoreless streaks. BIG NIGHT!!!
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Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
Posts: 5,304
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Post by Cambridge on Mar 10, 2005 10:52:15 GMT -5
I know you like stats, so statistically I'll say the reason I struggle watching him is because his turnovers per minute are higher than anyone in the rotation and his points per shot are the lowest. The reason I give Wallace more leeway? First he's a freshman and second: 6-8 from 3 point range for 20 points at Davidson 13 points versus Clemson 11 points versus Rutgers 12 points at Syracuse He's not a consistent scorer in the least. But from time to time Wallace can fill in and be our 3rd scorer. Against better teams (like tonight), in the face of adversity, I can at least say, "Eh, maybe Wallace will come through with 15 points and help us win". With Ray I'm more of a "Eh, maybe Ray won't turn over the ball a lot and we'll lose by less". I don't dislike Ray, I'm just looking forward to getting an upgrade at his spot in the rotation next year. For now, I completely understand that we have who we have so Reed is going to play some minutes. I accept our personnel limitations. No I agree with you...I never said that Ray should start...as Wallace does, I just wanted to try to chance the "culture of negativity" that seems to surround any discussion of him and channel it towards the positives he brings to the court. I too, have frustrations with his game...particularly turnovers, but I don't like the bile that tends to get spewed when he is brought up. Seems inballanced to say the least. |
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Post by HoyaAlbany on Mar 10, 2005 10:53:43 GMT -5
Ray drives me absolutely nuts sometimes, especially with silly turnovers when he tries to do too much - but he leaves his heart on the floor every game, and has more defensive intensity then most of the rest of the team, so I am still hopeful that he will be a big part of a huge win tonight, and a solid contributor for 2 more years.
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Post by Fan Of The Game on Mar 10, 2005 10:55:27 GMT -5
Hear, hear!
(at least on the huge win tonight part)
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 10, 2005 11:51:36 GMT -5
Cambridge's post gets the slow clap...
Clap.........Clap.........Clap......Clap......Clap...Clap...(smatterred applause).
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Post by ][-][ 0 `/ /-\ 5 on Mar 10, 2005 14:44:59 GMT -5
Is your name Inigo Montoya? Wow I love that guy. Anyways I don't think either wallace or reed should be seeing hugely diminished minutes right now. I'm just not understanding of why when people start getting angry at them its the "oh but hes only a freshman" or "why do you hate this guy hes a fine role player". I just want to see crawford get 15-20 minutes more often and see how that works. I understand that its late in the season but whos to say that he won't play better than reed or wallace. Great post Cambridge. |
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 10, 2005 14:53:16 GMT -5
Wow I love that guy. Anyways I don't think either wallace or reed should be seeing hugely diminished minutes right now. I'm just not understanding of why when people start getting angry at them its the "oh but hes only a freshman" or "why do you hate this guy hes a fine role player". I just want to see crawford get 15-20 minutes more often and see how that works. I understand that its late in the season but whos to say that he won't play better than reed or wallace. Great post Cambridge. I'm not knocking Crawford. And he may be better than Reed. It's just usually that the argument behind the reasoning is more anti-Reed than pro-Crawford -- and the reasoning is usually a year old. Such as: "I get scared when he touches the ball" Well, okay, but his TO/min rate isn't the worst on the team. And he's played much more in control this year. "He has no offense." I admit his outside shot is lacking, but this was said immediately after a game where he scored four straigth buckets for us, as well as during a stretch where he was our best assist man. "Players blow by him." I missing this. Both Tyler and Ray have serious fouling issues, but Ray is definitely our quickest guard and best defender. Tyler may also be good. Everyone who also expounds this shift in minutes fails to recognize another point: Tyler generally comes in at the 3 or 2, and never handles the ball. Ray is the backup PG. Tyler instead of Ray means shifting Cook to PG at times, or having only one ballhandler on the court at any time. It's not insurmountable, but it is an issue. I like both players. But for some reason, people still remember the Ray Reed of last year, and fail to acknowledge how much he's improved. |
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gopaland
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 125
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Post by gopaland on Mar 10, 2005 14:58:08 GMT -5
I don't think any college hoops board has more posts/threads about a player who has a relatively minor role on the team. Although I love that it gets people riled up on both directions.
Wonder if there are any stats on which player was mentioned the most in posts this year so far?
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Post by ][-][ 0 `/ /-\ 5 on Mar 10, 2005 15:05:12 GMT -5
It's just usually that the argument behind the reasoning is more anti-Reed than pro-Crawford -- and the reasoning is usually a year old. I'm on the pro-crawford side because I see Reed as been a hugely raw talent who I'm hoping will bust out or settle for being a solid point guard. (except for his 3's. I vote he never shoots a 3 again.) |
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Post by Fan Of The Game on Mar 10, 2005 17:30:49 GMT -5
"I get scared when he touches the ball" Well, okay, but his TO/min rate isn't the worst on the team. You're right...I did leave out Hibbert, who has a higher one. Ray's is the second highest. Glad to have you back SF...that guy money was nothing compared to you. I'll give my theories on why Ray gets so much negative pub once our season ends. We'll need something to talk about in the off-season. |
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 10, 2005 17:51:48 GMT -5
Looking forward to it.
After the season ends, I'm gonna do my nerd thing and hit the numbers on each player. I expect it'll mostly verify what we know from watching the games, I expect some surprises.
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