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Post by bronxhoya87 on Apr 27, 2011 13:57:41 GMT -5
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 27, 2011 14:11:48 GMT -5
Good to see, but not much more... According to this list, we did better by missing on Sam Thompson (if we ever had a chance) and gaining Porter. Jabril will have a chip on the shoulder and GW will come out of nowhere.
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deacon
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Post by deacon on Apr 27, 2011 14:22:39 GMT -5
Eric Bossi
Saw it asked earlier, but some of those who came closest to just making the final cut were Anthony Fields, Todd Mayo, Ryan Anderson, Keaton Miles, Donnie Hale, Kevin Pangos, Jarvis Summers, Marquis Rankin, Angel Nunez, Jabril Trawick, Greg Whittington and a few others.
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Apr 27, 2011 16:56:12 GMT -5
Getting kids in the top 100 is not that big of a deal. A top-25 program would expect 3 or so per year on average. The difference is when you can get top-10 kids.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Apr 27, 2011 18:07:30 GMT -5
Getting kids in the top 100 is not that big of a deal. A top-25 program would expect 3 or so per year on average. The difference is when you can get top-10 kids. I don't think that's exactly true. Most of the top 10 players are 1 and dones and only 1 and done player has ever one the championship. I'd say getting top 10 players(and i'd extend it a little beyond 10) to commit and stay multiple years is where a difference is made. But even then recruits ranked 11-100 can and will make just as much impact on average I feel. Of last years top 10 players from rivals only Brandon Knight made the final 4. Barnes, Bullock, and Selby's teams made the elite 8 but kansas did so more in spite of selby rather than with his help. Kanter was never cleared to play. Irving's team lost in the sweet 16 as did sullingers. Corey Joseph's team lost in the 2nd(now 3rd) round and Tobias Harris' team lost in the first(now second) round. Barnes Bullock and Sullinger coming back makes them well worth it. Knight's final 4 makes him well worth it. But the rest don't have much to show for it and their teams were not much better off. Greg was a great player for us as a top 10 recruit. But he didn't end up doing much for us in terms of on the court results.
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Apr 27, 2011 18:29:53 GMT -5
True, though I'd take the regular season of a lot of those teams despite the failure to reach the finals. Was Kemba top 10-20? Pretty sure Duke had a few last season with Singler, Scheyer and Nolan Smith too, but I don't recall their rankings specifically. Butler obviously didn't but they are an aberration historically speaking.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 27, 2011 19:05:35 GMT -5
ESPN's 2007 rankings: Singler #4 Nolan S. #6 (Austin #7) Taylor King #16, but left Duke.
Scheyer was Top 3.
Kemba was #14 (2008).
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KirbyKeger
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Post by KirbyKeger on Apr 27, 2011 19:22:00 GMT -5
Haha, Taylor King...
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Apr 27, 2011 23:12:17 GMT -5
I'd say your cutoff for "elite" type player is top 30. That would give us Austin, Chris (I think), Greg, Hollis (I think), and Otto (depending on the service). The first 3 worked out quite well. The 4th and 5th may or may not. The only real miss was Vernon.
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Post by bronxhoya87 on Apr 28, 2011 8:03:29 GMT -5
Elites are top 12
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damnhoya
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Post by damnhoya on Apr 28, 2011 8:27:31 GMT -5
Top 12? Pretty arbitrary number...
Question asked to Bossi about Whittington and Trawick not being in the top 150 and how he sees them in the future. His response:
"Basically, neither Jerry or myself ever had a chance to see enough of either guy to get into rankings. Spent lots of time talking to folks from the area I trust on both guys and came VERY close to throwing Whittington in there. But, in the end we decided that we didn't want to put guys in just on the word of others.
We do our best to see everybody and make a fair evaluation, unfortunately just not able to really see either.
I will say this, opinions were definitely more unified in thinking Whittington could be a major sleeper. Word on Trawick was quite mixed and biggest concern is that most feel he needs to play in a wide open, up and down system and that G'Town may not be a good fit."
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Post by thejerseytornado on Apr 28, 2011 8:49:26 GMT -5
Getting kids in the top 100 is not that big of a deal. A top-25 program would expect 3 or so per year on average. The difference is when you can get top-10 kids. fwiw, this doesn't seem true both statistically and this year. Statistically, that means that 25 teams should expect 3 kids each, which leads us to saying 75% of the top 100 should go to 25 programs. On its face, I doubt that. But there are more than 25 "top-25 programs." Who are top 25? Last year's polls? Historically? What? this year, according to Telep @ espn, Pitt has the 14th best class...only 2 in the top 100. Rutgers had the 15th best class, only 1 in the top 100. In fact, only Florida State was ranked lower than Georgetown (13th) and got 3 top 100 recruits in their rankings.
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Apr 28, 2011 9:26:14 GMT -5
Getting kids in the top 100 is not that big of a deal. A top-25 program would expect 3 or so per year on average. The difference is when you can get top-10 kids. fwiw, this doesn't seem true both statistically and this year. Statistically, that means that 25 teams should expect 3 kids each, which leads us to saying 75% of the top 100 should go to 25 programs. On its face, I doubt that. But there are more than 25 "top-25 programs." Who are top 25? Last year's polls? Historically? What? this year, according to Telep @ espn, Pitt has the 14th best class...only 2 in the top 100. Rutgers had the 15th best class, only 1 in the top 100. In fact, only Florida State was ranked lower than Georgetown (13th) and got 3 top 100 recruits in their rankings. I would say there are 3-4 teams in each of the major conferences that tend to challenge for their championships historically and just a very small number of mid-majors who historically have attracted top talent. That takes you to about 25, maybe 30-35 at most. So with 100 kids in the "top 100", there are plenty to go around. The trick is to get elite players and then also players who are not ranked in the top 100 but should be. Of course each year is different - we were not going to have a major recruiting class with '10 kids given that we only lost one player in Monroe and had lots of returning starters/contributors. Kentucky would not be able to have their top recruiting classes every year if their players stayed. In terms of "ranking" recruiting classes, those are actually a factor of how many kids a team gets, not just the quality. Kind of misleading. I don't think it should be this way, but that's how the services do it. For example, if a school had only one player coming in and that player was the consensus #1 ranked player in high school, you could argue that they have the #1 ranked recruiting class, but it wouldn't be characterized that way at all by the services.
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Post by thejerseytornado on Apr 28, 2011 9:38:04 GMT -5
show me a year where 20+ teams got 3 or more top 100 ranked players by any single scouting service.
I doubt that ever happens. I could be wrong. but there are too many programs that are good enough to convince a local kid to be their star, etc. to really expect talent to clump like that.
let's take your 25-30 teams. There are another 50 teams that can expect to lure one or two top 100 local players to be their next big star, to return them to prominence, etc. Rutgers got one this year! I mean, Virginia Tech got a really elite player this year--Virginia Tech definitely isn't in that top tier of schools.
Getting 3 highly rated recruits in one year is a sign of being an impressive recruiting school (or one of the super-elite names in basketball like KU, UK, Duke, etc.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 28, 2011 10:03:57 GMT -5
According to the Scout list, there are 12 teams who have 3 or more of the top 100, and 10 more (including the Hoyas) with 2.
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Apr 28, 2011 10:25:15 GMT -5
I think we're arguing lots of semantics. I think more of the point Dhall is trying to make is that in any given year, a top 25 program should be able to get 3 top 100 players, not that in every given year, a top 25 program should be able to get 3 top 100 players. While we haven't and probably couldn't (due to mundane concerns like scholarships and PT) get 3 top 100 recruits every year, I don't think that makes for amazing classes necessarily when we do.
For example, our recruiting class this year wouldn't have been considered that strong on paper if we had ended up with 3 top 100 players in Adams, Hopkins, and Trawick (note -- I know no single site names them all as top 100 players, but whatever, its a little irrelevant to the point if Tyler is 98 or 104 on ESPN). What puts our class in the elite group on paper is Otto's commitment. Similarly, the difference between an '08 class that was good on paper and one that was great on paper was Greg. If the class had turned out Jason, Henry, and Chris Braswell (even assuming he came), people would be pleased but not ecstatic.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Apr 28, 2011 14:10:03 GMT -5
Player rankings are overrated, IMO.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Apr 28, 2011 18:35:08 GMT -5
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Post by stafford72 on Apr 28, 2011 19:59:56 GMT -5
I thought I would look up the word "anal" in the dictionary to elicit all of its various connotations, but then I realized that if I did that, I would be missing at least one variant.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2011 20:06:05 GMT -5
Another way of evaluating recruits is to look at who else offered: Tyler Adams was offered by Duke and Mississippi State Otto Porter by Missouri Michael Hopkins by Kansas, Texas, West Virginia, Maryland, Miami, Jabril Trawick-had about 15 offers including Alabama, Boston College, Cincinnati, Florida State and North Carolina State Greg Whittington-only us
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