DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 7, 2011 21:36:14 GMT -5
Anyone who doesn't think the slew of transfers we have had during JT3's tenure isn't troubling is turning a blind eye, and anyone who doesn't think the systems has something to do with it is doing it again. As much as we would all like to pretend like everything is great with this program, clearly there are on the court issues with this program. I've spoken my peace on transfers in the past, but this is anything but a new issue. It was an issue when Bethel, Hall, and Harvey Thomas walked away and shredded Esherick's depth chart. It was an issue when the revolving door of guards (Sheffey-Brunner-Long) took hold in Thompson's final years. Look back 20 years to the Class of 1993 (Edwards-Sabol-Tate-Stoudamire). Any coincedence that 1993 was the year the Hoyas dropped into the NIT for the first time in 15 years? Three different coaches, three different issues on retaining talent. We don't know the inside workings on transfers, and whether , as I said earlier, they go voluntarily or otherwise. Dikembe Mutombo was in the papers this week saying "I saw more than six guys kicked out" while he was there. Four year players are valuable to a team and they should always be encouraged. |
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on May 7, 2011 21:36:36 GMT -5
so much on the court issues that we've been to the postseason every year that III has been here, a final four, a sweet 16, recruited the top player in the country, recruited mcdonalds all-americans, and have two big east titles, regular season and postseason. No dude, we had ON COURT ISSUES when Esh was here....lol....you people make me laugh This board keeps reaching higher and higher levels of stupidity with every post season collapse. I can't wait for what we have in store for us next year. |
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Post by daytonahoya31 on May 7, 2011 21:43:45 GMT -5
Sleepy, I think we have a chance to be pretty good next year...said it before, say it again
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the_way
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The Illest
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Post by the_way on May 7, 2011 21:51:41 GMT -5
transfers are part of college sports. it happens.
and don't forget, we are georgetown. we hold players accountable, off and on the court. there is a certain standard that needs to be met. if they aren't meeting it in the classroom they will be gone. if they aren't meeting it on the court, most will transfer to lower schools for more playing time.
As far as Hollis, i think whether he stays or returns won't have as much impact as some may think. Look when we lost Greg Monroe. We did okay if not just about the same. If Hollis returns, we are still short on depth and short on proven and experienced scorers. A lot of unknowns including Hollis himself. Hollis has never been the man or even a main option on offense. Its not a given he is that type of player or could be for us. He would have to prove that if he returns.
IF the NBA scouts like his potential and gets good feedback, more power to him and I wish him well.
IF he returns, he'll have a lot to prove in his expanded role for next year. As well as Clark, Nate, Sims and Starks.
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Post by hl79s on May 7, 2011 22:45:10 GMT -5
Unless Hollis is a sure first rounder why would he go when he could be star player and position himself for following year; second round draftees are not guaranteed any money and most don't ever make the NBA.
I am not excited by lineup of JC, Starks, Hollis, Nate and Sims. It is nonsensical for all of these posters to say that Sims is going to start barring some huge improvement over the summer. JT III played Lubick over him at the 5 in NCAA! I would be much more excited by lineup of Starks at PG; Hollis at 2G; Porter at SF; Lubick at PF and Adams or Moses at the 5 with Clark as 6th man.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on May 7, 2011 22:51:33 GMT -5
so much on the court issues that we've been to the postseason every year that III has been here, a final four, a sweet 16, recruited the top player in the country, recruited mcdonalds all-americans, and have two big east titles, regular season and postseason. No dude, we had ON COURT ISSUES when Esh was here....lol....you people make me laugh Daytona, what if JCTNHoya is correct on this? For discussion sake--let's say he's right (I don't know the poster so can't say anything either way) and if you want to throw numbers out--how about the fact this program's last NCAA win was in 2008 (a full recruiting cycle ago), they did nothing with the #1 HS player in country/lottery pick, 2 McDonalds All American guards who will be likely be undrafted FA in one of the thinnest drafts in years, and all the momentum of the new hire/rebuilding the program long established/now detached. Why is it hard to understand the need to address the perception of recruits/players in regards to how the Hoyas play? This isn't a new coach trying to get Georgetown back to being relevant and we've got some fans who talk as if III is a "new coach". He's not. The fact is he's got to bend on this one or he'll be fighting a battle that makes his job far more difficult. |
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RDF
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Post by RDF on May 7, 2011 22:53:08 GMT -5
Unless Hollis is a sure first rounder why would he go when he could be star player and position himself for following year; second round draftees are not guaranteed any money and most don't ever make the NBA. I am not excited by lineup of JC, Starks, Hollis, Nate and Sims. It is nonsensical for all of these posters to say that Sims is going to start barring some huge improvement over the summer. JT III played Lubick over him at the 5 in NCAA! I would be much more excited by lineup of Starks at PG; Hollis at 2G; Porter at SF; Lubick at PF and Adams or Moses at the 5 with Clark as 6th man. A lineup of Sims, Nate, Hollis, Clark and Starks is either due to FR class contracting a disease in China, being left in China, or eating too much Chinese food in prep for their trip to China. |
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drd13
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Post by drd13 on May 7, 2011 22:55:22 GMT -5
I feel like that lineup is without a doubt the most likely. Just my opinion, but I do not see it shaking out in any other way at least to start the season.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on May 7, 2011 23:17:17 GMT -5
RDF,
Of course the program can improve. Im frustrated by our three years of two first round exits and NIT berth as well. But that just means that the program needs to be tweaked, like, for instance, recruiting length and athleticism. and Presto!!!!, you have Greg and Otto, two 6-9 small forwards.
But people think that our program is in crisis mode, that we somehow have "major" issues...and we don't. We have a good program that one year ran into a hot steph curry and one year ran into a VCU team that went on to the Final Four. The year where I have issues with is against Ohio. That game was inexcusable...but we were still a three seed...still amongst the top 12 teams in the country.
Things happen. Even Duke has flamed out in the second round. People roasted Roy Williams FOR YEARS because his Kansas team would lose in tournaments early. It's hard to advance in the NCAA Tournament sometimes...but the fact is? This program is getting there, and getting there consistently under III, and doing it in the best conference in the country.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on May 7, 2011 23:31:04 GMT -5
RDF, Of course the program can improve. Im frustrated by our three years of two first round exits and NIT berth as well. But that just means that the program needs to be tweaked, like, for instance, recruiting length and athleticism. and Presto!!!!, you have Greg and Otto, two 6-9 small forwards. But people think that our program is in crisis mode, that we somehow have "major" issues...and we don't. We have a good program that one year ran into a hot steph curry and one year ran into a VCU team that went on to the Final Four. The year where I have issues with is against Ohio. That game was inexcusable...but we were still a three seed...still amongst the top 12 teams in the country. Things happen. Even Duke has flamed out in the second round. People roasted Roy Williams FOR YEARS because his Kansas team would lose in tournaments early. It's hard to advance in the NCAA Tournament sometimes...but the fact is? This program is getting there, and getting there consistently under III, and doing it in the best conference in the country. Flaming out when you consistently are bringing in elite recruiting classes is one thing--your chances are far greater to breakthrough--and I'm not even concerned about Duke/Kansas because Georgetown isn't in that level of discussion right now. That level of program left in 1980's. I'm far more frustrated with smaller scale issues that aren't being addressed that can help the program improve. We'll see if anything changes this year. Hope so. |
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Post by gtowndynasty on May 7, 2011 23:38:03 GMT -5
Gotta agree with RDF here. THere are major issues looming.
On another note, I talked to a guy who was in NJ and said Hollis looked very comfortable with the ball and even ran some point in pick n roll sets. He rebounded well, made smart basketball plays, and demonstrated that his handle is not weak at all. Sidebar*** How come we cannot implement something so simple n basic as a pick n roll...for Pete's sake every team in the league uses it.
Lastly heard that the two guys who helped themselves the most were Deandre Liggins and Hollis Thompson.
So the question becomes if we have a guy with NBA caliber talent in Hollis, why would he ever have to take a backseat to a guy without the same talent? I dont know if HT is frustrated or not, as reports have suggested, but if he can come back with confidence he has gained from this process and help this team next year, it would be best for all parties involved.
We cant afford anyone else to leave, especially Hollis.
Let the countdown begin.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on May 8, 2011 0:00:16 GMT -5
Gotta agree with RDF here. THere are major issues looming. On another note, I talked to a guy who was in NJ and said Hollis looked very comfortable with the ball and even ran some point in pick n roll sets. He rebounded well, made smart basketball plays, and demonstrated that his handle is not weak at all. Sidebar*** How come we cannot implement something so simple n basic as a pick n roll...for Pete's sake every team in the league uses it. Lastly heard that the two guys who helped themselves the most were Deandre Liggins and Hollis Thompson. So the question becomes if we have a guy with NBA caliber talent in Hollis, why would he ever have to take a backseat to a guy without the same talent? I dont know if HT is frustrated or not, as reports have suggested, but if he can come back with confidence he has gained from this process and help this team next year, it would be best for all parties involved. We cant afford anyone else to leave, especially Hollis. Let the countdown begin. Again--how would anyone know what Hollis can/can't do with the ball? He never got the opportunity to showcase any skills other then his shooting--although he proved to be a very good rebounder for a guy who had no business being misplaced as a PF. |
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on May 8, 2011 8:48:54 GMT -5
If there are kids that are unhappy with the system, that's on them. It wasn't a big secret what "system" was going to be run when they were recruited. Additionally, learning fundamentals, which this system requires, isn't "fun." Don't wanna play it? Don't come to Georgetown. Simple.
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757hoyafan
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Post by 757hoyafan on May 8, 2011 8:50:43 GMT -5
What he said......... If there are kids that are unhappy with the system, that's on them. It wasn't a big secret what "system" was going to be run when they were recruited. Additionally, learning fundamentals, which this system requires, isn't "fun." Don't wanna play it? Don't come to Georgetown. Simple. |
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wahoohoya
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Post by wahoohoya on May 8, 2011 9:06:25 GMT -5
If there are kids that are unhappy with the system, that's on them. It wasn't a big secret what "system" was going to be run when they were recruited. Additionally, learning fundamentals, which this system requires, isn't "fun." Don't wanna play it? Don't come to Georgetown. Simple. Sure. But there is more to it than that. Within the system, players like Hollis should be given every opportunity to show what they can do - especially when the players in front of him aren't getting it done. Simple as that. |
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Post by bergerhoya on May 8, 2011 9:15:24 GMT -5
If there are kids that are unhappy with the system, that's on them. It wasn't a big secret what "system" was going to be run when they were recruited. Additionally, learning fundamentals, which this system requires, isn't "fun." Don't wanna play it? Don't come to Georgetown. Simple. You're right, it is simple; if high level talent doesn't want to come to Georgetown because of the systems, we won't compete for Big East titles and won't make deep runs in the tourney. If that's what you want, than I say keep everything just the way it is. There are trends here that people seem to be ignoring. |
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on May 8, 2011 9:39:24 GMT -5
The system does not stop players from doing anything. How did it stop Hollis from driving? Chris drove. Austin drove. Vee drove. Monroe drove. Sapp drove. Jeff drove. Bowman drove. The system wants players to drive when they have a mismatch. Hollis was not aggressive when he could have been. Part of that was being on the court with Freeman and Wright. They were the pack leaders and Hollis and the rest deferred to them.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on May 8, 2011 9:45:35 GMT -5
If there are kids that are unhappy with the system, that's on them. It wasn't a big secret what "system" was going to be run when they were recruited. Additionally, learning fundamentals, which this system requires, isn't "fun." Don't wanna play it? Don't come to Georgetown. Simple. You're right, it is simple; if high level talent doesn't want to come to Georgetown because of the systems, we won't compete for Big East titles and won't make deep runs in the tourney. If that's what you want, than I say keep everything just the way it is. There are trends here that people seem to be ignoring. Berger - by all accounts we have a top 10-15 recruiting class this year, and we have just had 3 McD AA's in the program in the last 2 years, so your point about "high level talent" is a little off-base. At the same time, it is a valid point that to be successful year after year, the "system" has to allow adjustments for the particular personnel on each team. That can be a lesson that takes years for a head coach to learn, especially if he has strong success with his system early on. I truly believe that the recruiting philosophy changes that we seem to be making are a good indication that JTIII is learning to make the necessary adjustments. He is a smart guy. He is as frustrated with our end results the last few seasons as anyone. And I feel that Hollis will see more "freedom" to use his particular talents if he stays - which will only raise his potential stock for the NBA. |
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 8, 2011 10:37:13 GMT -5
Let the countdown begin.
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drd13
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Post by drd13 on May 8, 2011 11:12:01 GMT -5
Chad Ford now confirming that Hollis was among the players that looked the best yesterday. The countdown continues. twitter.com/#!/chadfordinsider |
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