RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Mar 20, 2011 12:40:33 GMT -5
Whether people want to believe it or not, JTIII could say the exact same thing. Right now. He is just not nearly as outspoken or public about it as Calhoun is. EDITED. That's why the staff is out there continuing to scout 2011 talent. JTIII therefore could easily say the same thing, that some of the current guys are going to try their hand at a different level and that there will be turnover. Calhoun is just unabashed about it. People can say that is "not classy" if they want, but the situation still isn't that different. Why is it difficult for people to accept that in a lot of cases it's in the best interest of both parties? To me, not only is it fair for a coach to give a kid an honest assessment of his prospects at the end of each year, but it's his responsibility. Does anybody think it's in ANYONE'S best interest to not at least let a kid know if he's unlikely to factor into the plans in the future? Look at some of the kids we've seen transfer through the years, and for most it's tough to argue that it didn't work out well. They've done well on the mid-major level, and we've been able to use the roster spot for somebody who can play on the BE level. A transfer does not mean somebody's life is thrown into shambles and they're kicked out onto the street like some people make it sound. A lot of times there is mutual agreement that it's time to go in another direction, and it works out ok for everyone. If the player seeks honest feedback from the coach in that situation, should the coach lie? Should the coach plead with him to stay around? It's always best for everyone to have an honest idea of where things stand. Otherwise player wastes away on the bench for 2-3 years, team can't recruit as aggressively, and nobody wins. You don't have to show anyone the door, but most times players see the writing on the wall, and if they don't and seek honest feedback from coaches, they ought to get it. If there was an "Applause" smiley-it would be in support of this--so this will have to do,  |
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,271
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Post by prhoya on Mar 20, 2011 12:40:53 GMT -5
I think this year is an example of that--did we really expect to find a potential diamond in the rough, a duke decommit, a classic philly style player, and a dematha guy + another hidden diamond (Porter)? No. but if we do the same thing next year, that's not learning to adjust to what JT3/Kirby can do on the trail well. and doing it a third time would be a real problem to me. Bad example. For the 2011, we had plenty of scholarships open. It's that next one for the 2011 that only the staff and the player(s) know(s) where it's coming from, if ever. JT3 is classy (remember the pundits questioning whether it was true that Wright was going to play as JT3 was saying the Saturday before Selection Sunday) and will not consider taking away anything. As we've read, he sits down with his players to talk about what the player needs to work on during the off-season, expectations, etc... From there, it's up to the player. I'm sure that if he wants a GU degree, he stays. Now, where's that ESPN article that was posted sometime here around TA's commitment re: what really goes on when programs recruit over players and some transfer? |
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AvantGuardHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
"It was when I found out I could make mistakes that I knew I was on to something."
Posts: 1,480
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Post by AvantGuardHoya on Mar 20, 2011 12:49:01 GMT -5
WOW. Fellas, tell me when was the last time you remember a so-called Hoya fan characterizing a conference opponent as elite and GU as third tier? smh.
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Post by thejerseytornado on Mar 20, 2011 12:49:06 GMT -5
Show Bronxitos when a Calhoun team go destroyed by mid major teams in the tourney 2 years in a row. Show Bronxitos when a Calhoun coached team gave zero effort? Show me when a Calhoun coached team was soft as baby feces. Come on comparing favorably an elite program like Yukon to a 3rd tier program like Gtown is insane. Be realistic or this convo is not worthwhile. First, thanks for proving how little you believe in our team. Glad to know. 3rd tier. noted. as for a zero effort calhoun team, I seem to remember one that didn't even MAKE the tournament last year after going 7-11 in the big east after starting 9-2. I remember one that lost to San Diego (not even SDSU!) in the first round of the NCAAs in 2008 the year after not even making it in 2007. so yeah...Calhoun's squads have shown zero effort before. your memory is questionable. |
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Post by bronxhoya87 on Mar 20, 2011 13:10:27 GMT -5
Yes they lost to San Diego in a game that AJ Price(in the NBA right now) was hurt early in the game. Again the game was close unlike against Ohio and VCU. We got destroyed by mid majors 2 years in a row. How many times since the field went to 64 in 1985 has that happened?
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 20, 2011 13:10:49 GMT -5
Show Bronxitos when a Calhoun team go destroyed by mid major teams in the tourney 2 years in a row. Show Bronxitos when a Calhoun coached team gave zero effort? Show me when a Calhoun coached team was soft as baby feces. Come on comparing favorably an elite program like Yukon to a 3rd tier program like Gtown is insane. Be realistic or this convo is not worthwhile. First, thanks for proving how little you believe in our team. Glad to know. 3rd tier. noted. as for a zero effort calhoun team, I seem to remember one that didn't even MAKE the tournament last year after going 7-11 in the big east after starting 9-2. I remember one that lost to San Diego (not even SDSU!) in the first round of the NCAAs in 2008 the year after not even making it in 2007. so yeah...Calhoun's squads have shown zero effort before. your memory is questionable. And still we wait for Bronxie's response to actual facts . . . |
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Post by thejerseytornado on Mar 20, 2011 13:21:04 GMT -5
Yes they lost to San Diego in a game that AJ Price(in the NBA right now) was hurt early in the game. Again the game was close unlike against Ohio and VCU. We got destroyed by mid majors 2 years in a row. How many times since the field went to 64 in 1985 has that happened? I'd rather lose to midmajors twice in a row than not make the tourney two out of four years. and if AJ Price getting hurt is an acceptable excuse, so is chris wright coming back rusty + early from a hand injury (and the atrocious refs). sooo...now i know you're a hater. cool. back to porter. hope he comes to g'town. would be a nice addition, i think, to the rotation. |
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Post by bronxhoya87 on Mar 20, 2011 13:41:13 GMT -5
Bronxitos hopes to dios that you are not still harboring visions of the collapse being Wright related. He came back and we still stunk. The problem was much bigger than Wright obviously. Yes they lost to San Diego in a game that AJ Price(in the NBA right now) was hurt early in the game. Again the game was close unlike against Ohio and VCU. We got destroyed by mid majors 2 years in a row. How many times since the field went to 64 in 1985 has that happened? I'd rather lose to midmajors twice in a row than not make the tourney two out of four years. and if AJ Price getting hurt is an acceptable excuse, so is chris wright coming back rusty + early from a hand injury (and the atrocious refs). sooo...now i know you're a hater. cool. back to porter. hope he comes to g'town. would be a nice addition, i think, to the rotation. |
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Post by thejerseytornado on Mar 20, 2011 13:48:15 GMT -5
Bronxitos hopes to dios that you are not still harboring visions of the collapse being Wright related. He came back and we still stunk. The problem was much bigger than Wright obviously. one game does not prove all that much. and let's stick to porter. we've learned enough about you by claiming conn is elite and georgetown is "3rd tier." |
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,864
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 20, 2011 14:40:04 GMT -5
Mods, would it be possible to move the transfer talk to it's own thread?
Thought it was an interesting debate but do not want to hijack this thread to do it..
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079 
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Post by sleepy on Mar 20, 2011 14:50:04 GMT -5
bronxie is way off when he calls us third tier but id gladly trade a few years out of the tourney once in a while like Uconn. For the record 1 championship, another final four an elite eight. and at least another sweet sixteen this year plus a 1st and 2nd round losses. This during the last seven years. Not implying I want to be anything like that program but the level of success achieved must be our target and what the program and coach is evaluated upon, and if it isn't moving in that directions you make changes.( no I'm not implying coaching changes)
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 20, 2011 15:04:23 GMT -5
bronxie is way off when he calls us third tier but id gladly trade a few years out of the tourney once in a while like Uconn. For the record 1 championship, another final four an elite eight. and at least another sweet sixteen this year plus a 1st and 2nd round losses. This during the last seven years. Not implying I want to be anything like that program but the level of success achieved must be our target and what the program and coach is evaluated upon, and if it isn't moving in that directions you make changes.( no I'm not implying coaching changes) UConn's Nat'l title was 8 years ago--they won it all during Esherick's last year. |
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Post by bronxhoya87 on Mar 20, 2011 15:15:17 GMT -5
Gtown is elite....does Gtown's fan base have the same expectations as Yukon's? Since our elite run ended in 1990 vs Xavier how many sweet 16's have we had? Forget Final 4's sweet 16's? Bronxitos counts......1995,96 2001, 2006 and 2007. That is hardly elite dear boy. Bronxitos hopes to dios that you are not still harboring visions of the collapse being Wright related. He came back and we still stunk. The problem was much bigger than Wright obviously. one game does not prove all that much. and let's stick to porter. we've learned enough about you by claiming conn is elite and georgetown is "3rd tier." |
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Post by thejerseytornado on Mar 20, 2011 15:25:19 GMT -5
Gtown is elite....does Gtown's fan base have the same expectations as Yukon's? Since our elite run ended in 1990 vs Xavier how many sweet 16's have we had? Forget Final 4's sweet 16's? Bronxitos counts......1995,96 2001, 2006 and 2007. That is hardly elite dear boy. some things: stop the condescending tone "dear boy" my ass. Two, there's at least one tier between "3rd tier" and "elite." Is g'town an elite program right today? no. is it in that next tier? hell yes. Can it get back to elite? yes. Is JT3 a coach who can take us there? I believe so. Conn's had slides, Duke's had slides, Kansas has had slides, etc. |
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Post by bronxhoya87 on Mar 20, 2011 15:36:05 GMT -5
If those teams had slides then what we have had is a avalanche of biblical portions. I think JT3 has been arrogant and he needs to get it together. Gtown is elite....does Gtown's fan base have the same expectations as Yukon's? Since our elite run ended in 1990 vs Xavier how many sweet 16's have we had? Forget Final 4's sweet 16's? Bronxitos counts......1995,96 2001, 2006 and 2007. That is hardly elite dear boy. some things: stop the condescending tone "dear boy" my ass. Two, there's at least one tier between "3rd tier" and "elite." Is g'town an elite program right today? no. is it in that next tier? hell yes. Can it get back to elite? yes. Is JT3 a coach who can take us there? I believe so. Conn's had slides, Duke's had slides, Kansas has had slides, etc. |
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hoya73
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,222
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Post by hoya73 on Mar 20, 2011 15:45:13 GMT -5
So, this thread deteriorates to this yahoo calling JTIII arrogant? Lock it and start a new thread for Porter.
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Post by thejerseytornado on Mar 20, 2011 15:47:59 GMT -5
If those teams had slides then what we have had is a avalanche of biblical portions. I think JT3 has been arrogant and he needs to get it together. look, first, THIS ISN'T THE PLACE FOR THIS CONVO. second, look at kansas under Self. First year with high expectations, started 20-1, then lost in the first round to Bucknell as a 3 seed. Second year, little expected of them, overachieved, lost in first round to Bradley as a 4 seed. they're definitely elite, right? so yeah, now you'll talk about blowouts vs. close games and i won't care. so let's just say we disagree and go back to talking about Porter. |
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adm1hoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 275
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Post by adm1hoya on Mar 20, 2011 17:35:44 GMT -5
I've heard Big JT state a few times on his radio show that a scholly is a year to year contract. Not a four year contract. I take that as saying that a kid is evaluated year to year and if he is not living up to expectations than that contract can be voided at the end of the year. I could be wrong but that's what i got out of it.
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whatmaroon
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 819
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Post by whatmaroon on Mar 20, 2011 19:53:04 GMT -5
I've heard Big JT state a few times on his radio show that a scholly is a year to year contract. Not a four year contract. I take that as saying that a kid is evaluated year to year and if he is not living up to expectations than that contract can be voided at the end of the year. I could be wrong but that's what i got out of it. By NCAA rules, an athletic scholarship is a one-year renewable contract which the coach/school is under no obligation to renew. It's frequently renewed as a matter of course barring academic or disciplinary issues, but some coaches are more, shall we say aggressive, in not renewing scholarships for their recruiting mis-steps. |
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adm1hoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 275
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Post by adm1hoya on Mar 20, 2011 20:24:09 GMT -5
I've heard Big JT state a few times on his radio show that a scholly is a year to year contract. Not a four year contract. I take that as saying that a kid is evaluated year to year and if he is not living up to expectations than that contract can be voided at the end of the year. I could be wrong but that's what i got out of it. By NCAA rules, an athletic scholarship is a one-year renewable contract which the coach/school is under no obligation to renew. It's frequently renewed as a matter of course barring academic or disciplinary issues, but some coaches are more, shall we say aggressive, in not renewing scholarships for their recruiting mis-steps. Agreed, but with that said i guess i am favor of a coach being honest with a player. Coaches make mistakes recruiting, and if a player is not showing improvement on the court. Than it is up to the coach to tell the kid that playing time may not be available next yr, here are your options. Now, i am not in favor of the Calhoun method of recruiting as stated above. But, i am all for brutal honesty, if the kid is well over his head and expects to play. This is big time college bball, not ping pong and coaching careers and ball players feelings are hurt at times. The best one can hope for is that the feeling is mutual between coach and player. |
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