Dhall
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,679
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Post by Dhall on Feb 9, 2011 13:25:18 GMT -5
Who are players in the last 10 years that have come to Gtown unranked or at least not highly "rated" and ended up starting and being a quality player for us? I can think of Jon Wallace off the top of my head. But I can think of a lot more who have come and done nothing. You want to recruit kids who you think will start and contribute at some point during their career and then let them all fight it out to see who really deserves it. If we are recruiting kids to be bench players, they should at least be 6'10". I'm not saying anything about this player because I have never seen him, but I agree with those people who say it's a waste to recruit kids that can't even impress the rating entities and college coaches enough to be listed or heavily recruited in the hope that somehow we have the ability to spot diamonds in the rough. If Maryland and Oklahoma are really serious about this kid, then to me that is a sign that he has talent.
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Post by DownTownJoeyBrown on Feb 9, 2011 13:44:49 GMT -5
Jeff Green and Roy Hibbert turned out pretty well.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Feb 9, 2011 13:49:00 GMT -5
Betancourt hasn't been on the radar for a while/with reason. The puff/propoganda that comes out about him is comical. Who knows about Betancourt? We didn't know that JT3 had visited where he played last year until rusty's post on 10/2/10. So to think that anyone here knows what is currently going on (if he's on JT3 radar or has fallen off) with recruiting is comical and Balla-ish. I agree that it's a propaganda piece, but what I take away is that he played Cook, did great (9 assists), his team won, and knows that he needs to continue to work hard. BTW, anyone else with a report of some knd from that game? Was GU there?
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chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by chep3 on Feb 9, 2011 13:50:18 GMT -5
RB's point about "rankings" is spot on--I've seen several guys ranked highly that can't play a like and some guys not getting enough attention that should be ranked--look at Otto Porter-nobody heard of him outside of Missouri last year--and the gurus see him and now he's a top 50 player. What changed about his game/talent? Whittington seems like a talented kid--and his talents fit what Hoyas can always use--size/skill/shooting ability. Whether he ever ends up on the hilltop or not--he's at least worth recruiting/keeping up with. I'm not saying recruiting rankings are infallible. In fact they're highly fallible. I'm just saying they shouldn't be outright rejected as a proxy. I don't think it's controversial to say that more likely than not, a kid who is ranked among the top 100 players is going to be more talented than kids who are off the radar. And with respect to Porter, some of the reason he was unknown was because he plays in the middle of nowhere. This kid plays in Columbia and plays on the AAU circuit. That being said, scouts might have just missed him and he might end up being highly talented and a good fit. I guess the more intriguing thing to me is why we're still looking in '11. I would think we'd be trying to take Porter if we could, but if not, putting our eggs in the '12 basket.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Feb 9, 2011 14:50:07 GMT -5
Betancourt hasn't been on the radar for a while/with reason. The puff/propoganda that comes out about him is comical. Who knows about Betancourt? We didn't know that JT3 had visited where he played last year until rusty's post on 10/2/10. So to think that anyone here knows what is currently going on (if he's on JT3 radar or has fallen off) with recruiting is comical and Balla-ish. I agree that it's a propaganda piece, but what I take away is that he played Cook, did great (9 assists), his team won, and knows that he needs to continue to work hard. BTW, anyone else with a report of some knd from that game? Was GU there? Dude, no one cares about Betancourt. You are just bangin him because he is puertoriqueno.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 9, 2011 15:56:14 GMT -5
Dude, did you see/read the link I posted on the C.B. thread on 10/3/10? JT3 begs to differ. Straight from the horse's mouth... BTW, you can read my position there as to puertorriqueño...
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deacon
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Post by deacon on Feb 9, 2011 17:00:55 GMT -5
The idea that this kid is a third-tier talent and should be treated as such simply because Eric Bossi has never heard of him is absurd. When word started to leak out that we had offered Jabril Trawick, a poster on Rivals asked Bossi what his game was like and Bossi replied that he couldn't give an analysis because he had never heard of him. Didn't have anything to do with Jabril's game, it's just that these services, for the most part, rank and gush over players they know about. Dave Telep sees him a few times last summer, next thing you know, he goes from unknown to a ESPN Top 100 player. That's just how it goes.
Howard County isn't known as a hotbed of talent, so it's unlikely for Rivals, Scout, etc.. to go scout players out there and he didn't play on an AAU team that traveled nationally, so to say he's a third-tier talent simply because he isn't ranked doesn't make much sense in this case giving that people, who have seen hm play, say he's the most talented player in the state and he's garnering major interest by the day.
Give the staff credit for covering all of their bases and making sure talents like this, this close to home aren't ignored.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Feb 9, 2011 17:08:17 GMT -5
Dude, did you see/read the link I posted on the C.B. thread on 10/3/10? JT3 begs to differ. Straight from the horse's mouth... BTW, you can read my position there as to puertorriqueño... PR. as a NYer, I always take an extra interest in kids from the City. No reason why you shouldn't take a similar interest in kids from PR. While I like the idea of one or two NYC kids on the team (e.g Jessie Sapp), I like the idea of top kids on the team regardless of where they might be from. LA, New Orleans, DC, MD, VA, Miss. I guess my point is, there's no need to be defensive about hyping a kid from PR -- especially one who is also getting his props elsewhere.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 9, 2011 17:42:03 GMT -5
Sir, I didn't intend it as defensive. Unlike brasky, I was using facts. In terms of recruiting, I like to be factual, not hype any kids and not get my hopes up (i.e., K. Anderson). JT3's interest is a fact unless someone else knows differently. The linked newspaper article (not the propaganda piece) is quite clear. JT3 was interviewed in PR. As for the hyping part, although I explained it on the other thread, I prefer what's best for the team and the only one who knows what works best for his team is JT3. If he determines it is Carmelo, so be it. That's why I say trust the staff on this one and other recruits.
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damnhoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by damnhoya on Feb 9, 2011 18:05:51 GMT -5
The idea that this kid is a third-tier talent and should be treated as such simply because Eric Bossi has never heard of him is absurd. When word started to leak out that we had offered Jabril Trawick, a poster on Rivals asked Bossi what his game was like and Bossi replied that he couldn't give an analysis because he had never heard of him. Didn't have anything to do with Jabril's game, it's just that these services, for the most part, rank and gush over players they know about. Dave Telep sees him a few times last summer, next thing you know, he goes from unknown to a ESPN Top 100 player. That's just how it goes. Howard County isn't known as a hotbed of talent, so it's unlikely for Rivals, Scout, etc.. to go scout players out there and he didn't play on an AAU team that traveled nationally, so to say he's a third-tier talent simply because he isn't ranked doesn't make much sense in this case giving that people, who have seen hm play, say he's the most talented player in the state and he's garnering major interest by the day. Give the staff credit for covering all of their bases and making sure talents like this, this close to home aren't ignored. It's not absurd to call him a Tier 3 recruit. He is a Tier 3 recruit for recruiting purposes. Tier 1 guys are the ones you go after regardless of need/position. They are special talents that you take based simply on talent and you don't worry about who is already on the hilltop in front of him. A Tier 2 recruit is someone you go after based on a need and not necessarily because he is a future 1st rounder. A Tier 3 guy is someone who may have an "offer" but the staff is waiting on guys who they rank higher internally before he gets a firm offer (and that includes guys we already lost out on in '11). To me, Whittington is a Tier 3 recruit. Not absurd at all.
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russodj
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Post by russodj on Feb 9, 2011 22:29:40 GMT -5
Purnell watched Whittington tonight per Reggie Rankin (ESPN). Rankin called Whittington a major sleeper and said
"I loved Whittington in Orlando this past summer where he played with HCYP Elite. Whittington is active, athletic with good skill. A match up problem"
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Feb 9, 2011 23:33:07 GMT -5
Purnell watched Whittington tonight per Reggie Rankin (ESPN). Rankin called Whittington a major sleeper and said "I loved Whittington in Orlando this past summer where he played with HCYP Elite. Whittington is active, athletic with good skill. A match up problem" I'll give Purnell this, he's doing a nice job with Clevelend Melvin this year...that kid's a player, one of the top freshmen in the conference. Too bad DePaul doesn't have anything else.
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AvantGuardHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by AvantGuardHoya on Feb 10, 2011 7:09:18 GMT -5
If no one else does, deacon, I appreciate your remarks re: talent opinions. Obviously the evaluation process is not rocket science.
And we know that college coaches have to project a kid's development within their teams' scheme. Some players blossom while others don't -- no matter their HS resume. Being a so-called stud on the secondary school level guarantees nothing.
Wonder what folks thought of Marshon Brooks coming out of high school.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Feb 10, 2011 9:06:32 GMT -5
If no one else does, deacon, I appreciate your remarks re: talent opinions. Obviously the evaluation process is not rocket science. And we know that college coaches have to project a kid's development within their teams' scheme. Some players blossom while others don't -- no matter their HS resume. Being a so-called stud on the secondary school level guarantees nothing. Wonder what folks thought of Marshon Brooks coming out of high school. Echo this. As well, I'll bet that coaches pay little, if any, attention to rankings. Rankings are for fans. Coaches are paid to make those evaluations themselves.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Feb 10, 2011 10:40:37 GMT -5
If no one else does, deacon, I appreciate your remarks re: talent opinions. Obviously the evaluation process is not rocket science. And we know that college coaches have to project a kid's development within their teams' scheme. Some players blossom while others don't -- no matter their HS resume. Being a so-called stud on the secondary school level guarantees nothing. Wonder what folks thought of Marshon Brooks coming out of high school. Echo this. As well, I'll bet that coaches pay little, if any, attention to rankings. Rankings are for fans. Coaches are paid to make those evaluations themselves. I'll throw in with my fellow old dogs HoyaInSpirit and AGH. While none of us knows anything about Whittington, we all recall the three most important Hoyas of JT3's first three years -- including his first Final Four: Big Roy, Jeff and Jon. None of those three was a Mickey D, a top 50 player, or even a top 100 player. JW was planning to go to the Ivy League! On the other hand, we've also had unheralded kids like Omar and Nikita, (Jury still out on JB and VS) who didn't contribute much. We've also had studly recruits like Cornelio, Vernon, Jeremiah and even Henry - who had various levels of contribution, but none who came close to Roy, Jeff and Jon. In short, maybe the chance of a Top ranked kid panning out is higher, but there are no guarantees. I do believe that Kirby is a big addition and is getting us in on more top recruits than we were on before, but it is still up to JT3 to close. If JT3 wants a kid, then I want that kid too. JT3 isn't "right" 100% of the time, but his track record as Hoya HC to date has been nothing short of Great! I say we give him the benefit of the doubt and hope all these kids have terrific careers at GU on the court and in the classroom too.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Feb 10, 2011 11:25:04 GMT -5
I'll throw in with my fellow old dogs HoyaInSpirit and AGH. While none of us knows anything about Whittington, we all recall the three most important Hoyas of JT3's first three years -- including his first Final Four: Big Roy, Jeff and Jon. None of those three was a Mickey D, a top 50 player, or even a top 100 player. JW was planning to go to the Ivy League! On the other hand, we've also had unheralded kids like Omar and Nikita, (Jury still out on JB and VS) who didn't contribute much. We've also had studly recruits like Cornelio, Vernon, Jeremiah and even Henry - who had various levels of contribution, but none who came close to Roy, Jeff and Jon. In short, maybe the chance of a Top ranked kid panning out is higher, but there are no guarantees. I do believe that Kirby is a big addition and is getting us in on more top recruits than we were on before, but it is still up to JT3 to close. If JT3 wants a kid, then I want that kid too. JT3 isn't "right" 100% of the time, but his track record as Hoya HC to date has been nothing short of Great! I say we give him the benefit of the doubt and hope all these kids have terrific careers at GU on the court and in the classroom too. Far more eloquently stated than than I could ever do. My sentiments exactly.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Feb 10, 2011 11:35:25 GMT -5
Nobody is going to "hit" on every recruit-just doesn't happen but in regards to III's evaluation--Macklin is doing what he would've done at Georgetown-he's not improved as a player at all--his lone offensive move-he didn't have in HS--he learned that hook at Georgetown.
Rivers--is doing what he did at Georgetown--but on a far worse team with a moron as the Head Coach. III evaluated him correctly.
Omar/Nikita weren't awful--but the combo was what made them less productive. Can't have 2 guys like this in rotation--and after seeing Nikita play--can see what they liked--he showed flashes (Cuse game/Nova game). Omar was spunky/fired 3's but is at the level he should've signed with out of HS--and it worked out for best--ala Egerson, Thornton, etc...
Whittington has good hoops IQ, skill, size, and athleticism. He's being recruited by major conference programs--so it's not like III/Hoyas are going after a guy that other schools view as a reach. Now how serious this is/or will get? We'll find out. Sure think he's worth monitoring and recruiting though.
Know what both sides of the debate are saying--but this is exactly the type of guy you have to at least find out more about. 6'8 athletic shooters who are skilled don't grow on trees and the Hoyas went hard after Rodney Hood, Tyrone Johnson, Christmas, etc....so it's not as if they bypassed guys who were bigger names/ranked higher--they brought in Betancourt for an unofficial/workout--and PR--you might be right--maybe they want him--I've heard differently but in the end we'll find out.
Thing is--don't be shocked when Spring coaching changes happen--that some guys get released from Letters of Intent and some options for Hoyas open up again too. Focus right now is on the season--and recruiting evaluations going to games--but the pursuit is on for '12 class--and the '11 class is pretty well set--the shakeout after season of roster will take place and we'll see what team needs.
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Feb 10, 2011 11:37:35 GMT -5
The thing about it is, if kids stay long enough, they're coached up and develop. If a kid buys in, he'll become a better player. So, if you bring in a highly touted kid, he'll get better, but has to stay long enough to maximize his talent, imo.
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Post by dungeon ball on Feb 10, 2011 12:03:22 GMT -5
Thing is--don't be shocked when Spring coaching changes happen--that some guys get released from Letters of Intent and some options for Hoyas open up again too. Focus right now is on the season--and recruiting evaluations going to games--but the pursuit is on for '12 class--and the '11 class is pretty well set--the shakeout after season of roster will take place and we'll see what team needs. Not to get too far off topic, but you'd think that Stansbury's seat has to be getting a little warm after the absolute circus MSU has been this year. And why a good player (Hood) would want to be part of that is beyond me.
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Post by gamp on Feb 10, 2011 12:59:26 GMT -5
Pretty sure Omar is Chattanooga's leading scorer. For what it's worth.
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