hoyatables
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Jun 5, 2013 9:54:11 GMT -5
Post by hoyatables on Jun 5, 2013 9:54:11 GMT -5
Thanks for all the spoilers, I scrolled down after I thought "not a pleasant end to the episode" was George Michael punching Michael in the face. Ha!!!! I was pretty darn surprised at that as well!
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Boz
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Jun 10, 2013 7:45:39 GMT -5
Post by Boz on Jun 10, 2013 7:45:39 GMT -5
GOT continues its tradition of destroying everyone's hopes and dreams in Episode 9 and using the Season Finale to show you what you can expect to see next season. It was an outstandingly well acted episode though. There are some characters I am going to miss soon... And good call to those who said that Grey Wind's head would be used in this episode. And I do think it served a legitimate purpose, for Arya and her future, if nothing else. (EDIT: Sorry, I try to keep my posts spoiler-free, but I don't think its giving too much away to note that Arya is destined to be a bit of a bad-ass).
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thebin
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Jun 10, 2013 9:17:39 GMT -5
Post by thebin on Jun 10, 2013 9:17:39 GMT -5
I feel like they should have ended on something other than Danny being feted by freed slaves, something that seems a bit repetitive and overly familiar by now. I would have preferred them ending with Maester Aemon sending the ravens about the White Walkers....or those ravens being received down South.
But overall a fantastic season loaded with quality.
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jgalt
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Jun 10, 2013 20:34:22 GMT -5
Post by jgalt on Jun 10, 2013 20:34:22 GMT -5
I feel like they should have ended on something other than Danny being feted by freed slaves, something that seems a bit repetitive and overly familiar by now. I would have preferred them ending with Maester Aemon sending the ravens about the White Walkers....or those ravens being received down South. But overall a fantastic season loaded with quality. I was surprised they didnt end with what they will surely start next season with. I wish they had. I think people would have loved it and made the show more popular. And all else Ill say is no Coldhands...
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JB5
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Jun 11, 2013 7:49:23 GMT -5
Post by JB5 on Jun 11, 2013 7:49:23 GMT -5
I feel like they should have ended on something other than Danny being feted by freed slaves, something that seems a bit repetitive and overly familiar by now. I would have preferred them ending with Maester Aemon sending the ravens about the White Walkers....or those ravens being received down South. But overall a fantastic season loaded with quality. I was surprised they didnt end with what they will surely start next season with. I wish they had. I think people would have loved it and made the show more popular. And all else Ill say is no Coldhands... I've always been bored by Dany's plot, so the ending was something of a letdown. Coldhands' absence isn't a big deal. His only function seems to be as a source for wild internet speculation as to his identity. If they use the ending of the book, next season's finale will be much more memorable.
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CTHoya08
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Jun 11, 2013 9:19:59 GMT -5
Post by CTHoya08 on Jun 11, 2013 9:19:59 GMT -5
I don't understand why everyone is so up in arms about the lack of Coldhands. Based on what we actually know about him from the books, he seems like a perfect character to cut from the show. Of course, if we do learn who he is (or how he is) in future books, that may look like a foolish statement.
I think the "Where is Coldhands!?" uproar is part of the larger complaint of "not enough magic" that a lot of readers seem to be making. What drew me into the first season of the show (and from there into the books) was the fact that, despite being a fantasy series, most of the plot seemed to be focused on human conflict and politicking, not magic. I think there was a conscious decision by the show runners to reduce the magical elements of the story that aren't truly essential to the plot, because they want to appeal to the broadest possible audience.
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hoopsmccan
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Jun 11, 2013 9:45:45 GMT -5
Post by hoopsmccan on Jun 11, 2013 9:45:45 GMT -5
They could just add Coldhands next season, when he actually has more to do. Easy enough to have him save Bran and folks while traveling and then stick with that crew. Bringing him in this season would have meant spending more time with Sam and Gilly...not sure anyone would want that at the expense of other plot lines.
hm
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Boz
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Jun 11, 2013 10:10:49 GMT -5
Post by Boz on Jun 11, 2013 10:10:49 GMT -5
Is Bran even going to be in next season at all? Is Dany, for that matter? I guess Dany still has some things to wrap up from Book Three, but Bran's storyline is basically over for a while, unless they're going to start drawing from Dance with Dragons for Season 4. (which I don't mind if they do).
If we do see Bran next season, I agree with hoops. It was easy to write Coldhands out to this point. Less so (but certainly not impossible) when Bran is north of the Wall.
It's kind of interesting though, and Coldhands is a good example. Some of what they decide to do for TV has to depend on events that Martin hasn't even written yet. Personally, I think Coldhands is (or will be) an important character, but I have no idea if Martin feels the same way.
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quickplay
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Jun 11, 2013 11:18:51 GMT -5
Post by quickplay on Jun 11, 2013 11:18:51 GMT -5
I think they'll draw from ADWD for season 4; I think the next two seasons will be more fluid between the second half of ASOS and AFFC and ADWD - the way it's all written it doesn't break as neatly into specific seasons/episodes. Agree with Boz that it would be a good thing.
As far as some characters next year, they've done a few things that give them some flexibility. Ramsay knows that Bran and Rickon aren't dead (Theon told him before Ramsay turned on him). This could lead to some 'hunts' for them. Ramsay and his men/dogs going after Bran or Rickon. Personally, I'd love to see a Ramsay's men/dogs vs. Shaggydog showdown.
As far as the last episode, it felt like a huge letdown. It was great overall, but you need some oomph to get people pumped to wait a whole year for the next season. Dany's scene was kind of blah. She secured an incredible army earlier in the season, that's what she needed. Now we're supposed to get excited that the freed slaves like her too. And she can crowdsurf?
ESPECIALLY when they had an absolutely perfect opportunity to end with a single 30 second scene that would have had people talking non-stop until next year...
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thebin
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Jun 11, 2013 12:04:09 GMT -5
Post by thebin on Jun 11, 2013 12:04:09 GMT -5
I think the Red Wedding has ensured people will be talking till next season. Wasn't necessary or the HBO way to do that on the last episode in addition to the penultimate one. But yeah, I agree the Dany scene just felt like something we already knew happened and had even seen once or twice before this season. I also find that time spent in Essos is generally less enthralling compared to show minutes in Westeros.
As for magic....if anything there is already too much fantasy for me. Granted I'm not a fantasy fiction fan, but that isn't the target audience of the tv show. They have to go more broad than that to be able to pay for this lavash production. I actually like the dragons- I've been incredibly impressed by the CGI on that front. But the warg stuff makes my eyes roll back into my head too.
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prhoya
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Jun 11, 2013 16:22:30 GMT -5
Post by prhoya on Jun 11, 2013 16:22:30 GMT -5
I agree that the last scene felt like something that has been done before, but HBO has been devoting less time to the Daenerys storyline than the book did. There's just too much in the book for a 10-episode season.
As for magic, and without giving away much, IMO it picks up in the rest of the books.
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Boz
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Jun 11, 2013 17:28:45 GMT -5
Post by Boz on Jun 11, 2013 17:28:45 GMT -5
If demonic fetal shadow assassin didn't (A) turn people away (B) do enough to convince people that magic/the supernatural was an intrinsic part of this story, I guess nothing will...
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jgalt
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Jun 11, 2013 18:47:38 GMT -5
Post by jgalt on Jun 11, 2013 18:47:38 GMT -5
It's kind of interesting though, and Coldhands is a good example. Some of what they decide to do for TV has to depend on events that Martin hasn't even written yet. Personally, I think Coldhands is (or will be) an important character, but I have no idea if Martin feels the same way. This is why I get concerned about who/what they leave out. If the work was complete, its totally fine and understandable, to cut things out. But the work isnt done yet so events in the show could have an effect on what is written and I dont want the time and budget constraints of TV to be impacting how a great piece of fiction could conclude. Also I thought we were all pretty much in agreement about who Coldhands is. I guess you can introduce him later, so it wont matter, but I always expected him to play a big role in the rest of the story. What also bothered me was that Sam and Bran et al. spent so much time talking about how hard it is to get through the wall because all the gates are closed or destroyed, and then at the end of the episode they just walk right through like the yellow brick road or something. Would it have been so bad for sam to say "hey there is a gate at the bottom of this well that only I can open, lets go through there" and they just show Bran on the other side? And if there is no time for that, how bout cutting a pointless scene between Varys and Shae, that was just poor writing whether it was in the book or not (it wasnt)- dont write a scene where nothing happens, its pointless, this isnt Lost.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jun 11, 2013 19:37:10 GMT -5
Are we in agreement about who Coldhands is? I know a lot of people think he's someone we've already seen, but I think he's clearly not.
The writers have access to Martin. They know how this ends.
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Boz
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Jun 11, 2013 19:38:21 GMT -5
Post by Boz on Jun 11, 2013 19:38:21 GMT -5
The writers have access to Martin. They know how this ends. You're assuming Martin knows how this ends...
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jun 11, 2013 19:43:35 GMT -5
The writers have access to Martin. They know how this ends. You're assuming Martin knows how this ends... If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
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Boz
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Jun 12, 2013 9:31:31 GMT -5
Post by Boz on Jun 12, 2013 9:31:31 GMT -5
You're assuming Martin knows how this ends... If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention. I was not intimating that there would be happy endings. I was simply stating that Martin himself may not know what the hell comes next (somewhat tongue in cheek: I am sure he has plotted out, in part, the next installment. And I'm sure he has many, many thoughts every day, about how this whole thing ends. But I don't know if he KNOWS yet. On the other hand, I am betting that Jon and Dany will marry, adopt Arya as their own assassin child, bring Tyrion in as Hand to the king and queen/court jester, and they'll all raise hybrid direwolf-dragons in an eternal Westeros spring.
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CTHoya08
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Jun 12, 2013 10:39:57 GMT -5
Post by CTHoya08 on Jun 12, 2013 10:39:57 GMT -5
And if there is no time for that, how bout cutting a pointless scene between Varys and Shae, that was just poor writing whether it was in the book or not (it wasnt)- dont write a scene where nothing happens, its pointless, this isnt Lost. I wasn't all that impressed by that scene, but I think it does serve a purpose.
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rosslynhoya
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Jun 13, 2013 18:18:08 GMT -5
Post by rosslynhoya on Jun 13, 2013 18:18:08 GMT -5
Coldhands is the Tom Bombadil of ASoIaF ... a cool character but not as necessary to the story as some people think.
On a separate note, we had not one but two episodes this season in which Tywin emphasizes for seemingly no apparent reason that he raised Tyrion as a Lannister. Consider me intrigued.
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Jack
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Jun 14, 2013 12:42:32 GMT -5
Post by Jack on Jun 14, 2013 12:42:32 GMT -5
And if there is no time for that, how bout cutting a pointless scene between Varys and Shae, that was just poor writing whether it was in the book or not (it wasnt)- dont write a scene where nothing happens, its pointless, this isnt Lost. I don't read the books and I don't plan to, but I thought that was one of the best and most important scenes in the episode. With that scene, we learn that Varys has political ambitions for Tyrion. We learn that Shae has developed deep loyalty to Sansa. We get the parallels between two people who have worked their way up in this world with very little opportunity for social mobility, and we see that they have both chosen to take part in this insane game even when they have a way out (recall Shae previously begging Tyrion to sail away with her). And we get a great line from Varys about having only one name, and how that is not enough. But no one is stabbed in the gut or loses any appendages or casts any spells, so I guess nothing happens.
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