Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
123 Fireballs!
Posts: 10,355
|
TV
Apr 9, 2013 13:04:55 GMT -5
Post by Boz on Apr 9, 2013 13:04:55 GMT -5
Nah, it's OK. You make a good point, TBird. I apologize.
At the very least, we can probably put a spoiler warning in front of anything that contains such.
|
|
JB5
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 690
|
TV
Apr 9, 2013 13:32:50 GMT -5
Post by JB5 on Apr 9, 2013 13:32:50 GMT -5
I was a bit surprised they chose to reveal Theon's survival as soon as they did. Of course, now he's really up the creek.
I'm not sure what was the point of adding the scene between Catelyn and Talisa when so much of the book is left out.
My favorite scene was Sansa's with Oleana Tyrell. Too bad there wasn't time to have Loras advise Sansa not to call her "Queen of Thorns" to her face. I would also have liked to have heard the singer belting out "The Bear and the Maiden Fair" to cover up the ladies' conversation.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
TV
Apr 9, 2013 13:47:17 GMT -5
Post by TBird41 on Apr 9, 2013 13:47:17 GMT -5
I was a bit surprised they chose to reveal Theon's survival as soon as they did. Of course, now he's really up the creek. I'm not sure what was the point of adding the scene between Catelyn and Talisa when so much of the book is left out. My favorite scene was Sansa's with Oleana Tyrell. Too bad there wasn't time to have Loras advise Sansa not to call her "Queen of Thorns" to her face. I would also have liked to have heard the singer belting out "The Bear and the Maiden Fair" to cover up the ladies' conversation. Do we know who is holding Theon captive (show only)?
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
|
TV
Apr 9, 2013 15:02:35 GMT -5
Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 9, 2013 15:02:35 GMT -5
I was a bit surprised they chose to reveal Theon's survival as soon as they did. Of course, now he's really up the creek. I'm not sure what was the point of adding the scene between Catelyn and Talisa when so much of the book is left out. My favorite scene was Sansa's with Oleana Tyrell. Too bad there wasn't time to have Loras advise Sansa not to call her "Queen of Thorns" to her face. I would also have liked to have heard the singer belting out "The Bear and the Maiden Fair" to cover up the ladies' conversation. Do we know who is holding Theon captive (show only)? In Season 2, Roose sent his bastard, Ramsay to to besiege Winterfell and offer the Iron Islanders pardons if they turned over Theon... which they presumably did/tried to do when they knocked out Theon. When Bran and Rickon left, though, everyone was dead and Winterfell burned. Ramsay also presumably wrote the Winterfell note Roose got this week -- that Winterfell was burned and no sign of Bran and Rickon. Take from that what you will.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
|
TV
Apr 9, 2013 15:12:18 GMT -5
Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 9, 2013 15:12:18 GMT -5
You're such a tease, SF! No, I pretty much feel the same way, sitting on the edge of my seat in these first couple of episodes waiting for all the huge events that will happen this season. I was thinking after this past Sunday whether I would be better off (or, more practically, even physically capable of) not watching any of the episodes for a couple of months and then watching them all at once. Not too much to comment on the new cast. I think all are good choices, but they haven't had too much time on screen yet. Some points of interest: 1. It seems they are going to show us Theon's descent into Reek, which we didn't get much of in the books, IIRC. I think this is a good choice that will pay off down the road. 2. They robbed Sam of his moment of glory!!! Though, as I read in a review the other day, I think they HAVE to give that back to him later in the season at some point, don't they? 3. Was Beric in the scenes with Thoros? I can't remember. I'll have to watch again. But doesn't that need to be set up before too much longer? 1) Yes, though I wonder what the heck they are going to do to stretch out something that was half a chapter in Dance as a flashback into two seasons worth of plot. 2) It'll happen after the next Night's Watch plotline, I think. 3) We haven't seen Beric yet. Next episode, I'm fairly sure. Not to give anything away, but in addition to one thing TBird mentioned (Jamie and Brienne), there's at least three awesome scenes that should happen in the next two eps.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
|
TV
Apr 9, 2013 15:17:03 GMT -5
Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 9, 2013 15:17:03 GMT -5
TWD Finale -
Did everyone else find it as awful as the rest of the internet? I thought it was okay. I'm not sure what people were expecting out of the TWD but I feel like that was a typical episode. Maybe I just don't think it was as awesome as everyone else.
Justified finale -
Well done, especially the Boyd/Eva plotline. Can't say the season ever completely grabbed me because the bad guy kept moving and failed to captivate me. Nice ending, and the Drew reveal was good, but I never felt the antagonist as strongly as I'd like. Keep in mind my standards for Justified are much, much higher than TWD. Just such a better show.
|
|
jgalt
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,380
|
TV
Apr 10, 2013 9:44:53 GMT -5
Post by jgalt on Apr 10, 2013 9:44:53 GMT -5
I stopped watching the Walking Dead half way through this season. Too many Lost flashbacks of time investment and no pay off. I also know that if it does get good again I can probably go back to it without missing much. As for GoT, im just sad there is not going to be a Strong Belwas
|
|
FormerHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,262
|
TV
Apr 11, 2013 10:02:50 GMT -5
Post by FormerHoya on Apr 11, 2013 10:02:50 GMT -5
TWD Finale - Did everyone else find it as awful as the rest of the internet? I thought it was okay. I'm not sure what people were expecting out of the TWD but I feel like that was a typical episode. Maybe I just don't think it was as awesome as everyone else. I liked TWD finale. Yes, there were some copouts, but I don't think that they could have made a "war movie" that would have satisfied everyone.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
|
TV
May 2, 2013 9:49:14 GMT -5
Post by SFHoya99 on May 2, 2013 9:49:14 GMT -5
Kinda shocked by the lack of GoT comments here. Two set-up episodes, a strong episode three and then two A+ episodes for me, although Episode 4 was driven by big, awesome plot points and Ep 5 was just super strong in people talking. Lots of feels in the latter.
If they can keep it up -- and that's a big if because last season's best episodes (aside from #9) were early -- this season will be one of the best seasons of television ever. Granted, they only have 10 episodes not to screw up, but they are really hitting on all cylinders right now.
|
|
thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,849
|
TV
May 2, 2013 12:16:27 GMT -5
Post by thebin on May 2, 2013 12:16:27 GMT -5
For my money the last two GoT efforts were the two best hours of television I've ever seen. Outstanding. I've literally watched Kissed by Fire three times already. Glad to know this episode broke the 5mm mark for viewership for the first time ever for GoT.
|
|
hoyaLS05
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,652
|
Post by hoyaLS05 on May 2, 2013 14:27:25 GMT -5
Anyone else keep up with The Americans?
Thought last night offered a good finale to an arguably great debut season.
|
|
|
TV
May 2, 2013 15:47:34 GMT -5
Post by AustinHoya03 on May 2, 2013 15:47:34 GMT -5
If you ask me, Game of Thrones is doing a pretty poor job of organizing the various subplots this season, and there's basically nothing happening in many of those subplots because so little is revealed in each show. Take the Arya subplot, for example. There has not been a good explanation of what the Brotherhood is or what its goals/motivations are to this point, because we get less than 10 minutes per episode of that subplot every week. How about the Bran subplot? He's a wog and has wog dreams, and the creepy-looking kid from Love Actually showed up and is a wog, too. Fascinating. Tell me why that matters already, because we're a third of the way through the season. Same thing goes for the more interesting character subplots, like Daenarys. Just spend 30 minutes on that subplot and actually move it along instead of giving us tiny bits every week. After every episode, I think that the Daenarys and John Snow subplots are going to blow up in the next week, and then I'm let down when nothing substantive happens. When you spread each 1 hour episode over 10 subplots, none of which have connected yet, there is almost zero opportunity for character development and the show starts to feel more like an evening soap.
I watched Seasons 1 & 2 over a couple weeks on HBO Go, and I'm starting to think that is the correct way to consume GoT. (By the way, HBO Go is awesome and if it ever decouples from cable I will be one step closer to ditching my cable subscription.) I'm sure it's a bit different for those who have read the books and know the story, but I feel a bit let down by the pace of the storytelling in the TV episodes.
|
|
thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,849
|
TV
May 2, 2013 16:05:07 GMT -5
Post by thebin on May 2, 2013 16:05:07 GMT -5
I agree the Bran subplot has bored me this year almost as much as the Theon subplot. And the Jon Snow subplot bored me until Ygrette spiced it up in that cave. Don't agree with you about the Brotherhood plot tho- think it has been one of the delights of the season. Thoros is def my favorite new character of season 3.
I've only done some partial book reading- but I understand that they have to string along some plots during spells where the action is elsewhere so the tv audience remembers who they are when their plots pick back up in later seasons/books. I thought the entire Danny plot in season 2 (pre and in Qarth) was completely boring- but I understand why they had to keep giving me 10 minutes a week of it. Now it is paying off. THat said there was NOTHING boring in the last two episodes. And the last episode was simply staggering.
|
|
|
TV
May 2, 2013 17:08:20 GMT -5
Post by AustinHoya03 on May 2, 2013 17:08:20 GMT -5
Agree that the guy who plays Thoros is doing a great job.
I just don't feel that we have been fully brought up to speed about what the Brotherhood is and what its motivations are, though there have been several hints. Instead of jumping around in every episode, why not dedicate 20 minutes to more Thoros on screen and further developing that character and plotline?
And the lack of information conveyed to the viewer has been staggering at times. When Cat Stark went to her father's funeral, we didn't get any explanation of who her family members are. I'm not even sure we were told their names.
I think it's probably a consequence of trying to cram all of the information in the books into a television series. I'm sure it's difficult. But as a viewer I feel that we've been jumping between subplots in Season 3 and the overall plot has been stuck in neutral. What has happened that has been significant to any of the characters or to Westeros at large? Not much, other than Jamie getting his hand cut off, Daenarys getting her army, and maybe Robb Stark executing Lord Karstark.
There's been good stuff in Season Three. For example, Jamie's version of killing the Mad King in the last episode was great. GoT needs more scenes like that, but often chances for character development are missed due to packing too much plot into every episode. Robb Stark deciding whether to execute Karstark could have been a great sequence, but he doesn't really discuss his feelings or motivations in a meaningful way.
GoT should take a page from a truly great HBO series, The Wire, which moved away from certain subplots for several episodes but was able to come back to them due to the strength of its storytelling and character development.
|
|
rosslynhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,595
|
TV
May 2, 2013 19:41:34 GMT -5
Post by rosslynhoya on May 2, 2013 19:41:34 GMT -5
And the lack of information conveyed to the viewer has been staggering at times. When Cat Stark went to her father's funeral, we didn't get any explanation of who her family members are. I'm not even sure we were told their names. I think it's probably a consequence of trying to cram all of the information in the books into a television series. I'm sure it's difficult. But as a viewer I feel that we've been jumping between subplots in Season 3 and the overall plot has been stuck in neutral. What has happened that has been significant to any of the characters or to Westeros at large? Not much, other than Jamie getting his hand cut off, Daenarys getting her army, and maybe Robb Stark executing Lord Karstark. The HBO episodes leave out 80% of the context and a good part of the action. As SF has noted before, a lot of this is no doubt driven by budgetary reasons as much as it is a necessity to distill a 900-1200 page book into 600 minutes of screen time, which has to make room for an ample quantity of soaring landscapes and other huge tracts of land, at the expense of plot development. Sadly, it hasn't just been simplification of plotlines and minimization of gratuitous heraldry. I, like most viewers who've read the books, can easily whine for hours about the major changes and the infuriatingly trivial changes that have been made -- and can also curse extensively the fact that we're getting any Theon scenes at all instead of spending more time on dramatizing scenes or plot elements that actually appear in Storm of Swords (Is it even made clear that Thoros of Myr's life-restoring Lord of Light is the same fire-based deity that gives Melisandre the ability to birth shadow assassins that murder Stannis's rivals?). The elimination of any of the novels' religious content and each faith's associated prophecies really suck a lot of the epicness out of the series and make me confused about how HBO intends to proceed in the long run. In stark contrast to Game of Thrones, I was really surprised by the quality of Mad Men's season premiere. It was a two-hour episode that allowed for a number of serious story arcs to be told and told well over the full extent of the time available. I found myself wondering whether a high-quality series could someday commit to carrying that out on a weekly basis.
|
|
jgalt
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,380
|
TV
May 2, 2013 22:35:07 GMT -5
Post by jgalt on May 2, 2013 22:35:07 GMT -5
*Listen I know everyone hates the guy who just talks about how the book is different, so you can skip this post if you hate that guy because I am going to be that guy*
I agree with what has been said about the lack of details regarding who the hell most of these people are. I have read the books (and I re-read SoS recently to remind my self of what was going to happen this season) and I know what is going to happen doesnt make it any worse of an experience. I actually like it better. My roommate has not read the books. So he asks me a lot about what is going on. I try to answer best I can with out giving anything away.
I think this is the best way to watch the show. Have a reference for what is going on. Like having a program at a baseball game.
What has bothered me is not how many changes they have made, its that I dont think the changes they have made have made the story any more clear to the viewer. They added that whole bit with Varys and Tyrion and the guy who cut Varys, and the bit with Lord Tully's funeral (the guy who kept missing was the younger son, who also chose to go against Robb Starks orders and attack Lord Tywins main force as Tywin was head west towards Robb. This slowed down Tywin's host long enough for a rider from Dorne (the Tyrells) to reach Lord Tywin and tell him Stannis was going to attack kinds landing. So Tywin was able to turn around and help defeat Stannis at the battle of the Blackwater, from last season. If this had not happened Stannis may have been able to defeat the Lannisters at Kings Landing, changing the who situation and greatly helping Robb.) None of that is in the show, but it really helps you understand what is going on.
There is also a huge part with Roose Bolton taking Harrenhal and Arya actually killing people to escape that castle instead of Joquin just doing it for her.
So none of that is in the show, but there is really no reason for it because they are adding a lot of meaningless scenes to the show. I think the only reason we are seeing these Theon scenes is because his contract probably says he has to be in it.
And dont get me started on the who Cersei marrying Loras thing. Loras is supposed to be in the Kingsguard, like Jamie, and therefore cant marry anyone. Cersei and Sansa are betrothed to Wylas Tyrell who is the heir to Highgarten but is a cripple and therefore undesirable. Really dont understand this change as Wylas is only talked about and never shows up, so you dont have to hire a new character.
I am worried that they are moving away from the themes and motifs that are so well developed in the books. There is a lot of thematic work regarding changing identities and finding your true identity that is in the show but is more more developed in the books. And in the books you get a much better sense that the best laid plans are worthless and the fighting in Westeros isnt as significant as we think as the free cities dont really give a crap. The diplomatic intricacies are lost in the show because you can have inner monologues where a character talks about how everyone is married to everyone else and who killed who in the past.
|
|
thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,849
|
TV
May 3, 2013 7:50:39 GMT -5
Post by thebin on May 3, 2013 7:50:39 GMT -5
"Is it even made clear that Thoros of Myr's life-restoring Lord of Light is the same fire-based deity that gives Melisandre the ability to birth shadow assassins that murder Stannis's rivals?"
Are you guys watching the same show I am? How could that have been more clear? I mean they are chanting the exact same stuff over and over. You'd have to be pretty obtuse not to realize they are the same religion. I like the fact that they don't forcefeed exposition to the audience.
There is also NO CHANCE the showrunners are only including Theon because one of the least important actors from an immense cast is making them do so because he needs the work. That's just not how television works.
I really feel like the book readers are not having remotely the same television experience the non-readers are having because they refuse to let the tv product speak for itself. Which is too bad because it is some of the best television in history. I think the best thing to do is enjoy the tv for what it is....then and only then go read the books and let the books speak for themselves too. It never seems to work the other way around.
|
|
CTHoya08
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Bring back Izzo!
Posts: 2,889
|
TV
May 3, 2013 13:22:15 GMT -5
Post by CTHoya08 on May 3, 2013 13:22:15 GMT -5
I have read the books, but don't have nearly as many complaints as most readers seem to have. I actually don't have a problem with the change from Wylas to Loras--there are already a ton of characters, and it doesn't materially change the plot to substitute one Tyrell for another to reduce the amount of names viewers need to keep track of. The result--a hopeful Sansa and an angry Cersei--is the same.
I do think they could do a better job of letting us know who some of the characters are. Not necessarily lengthy exposition, but just making sure that someone addresses them by name when they appear on screen. I have the Tullys in mind--I remember the funeral scene from the book, so I knew that the guy missing with the arrows would be Cat's brother, and the guy to connect would be her uncle. But I could see how a TV-only person would struggle to keep track of some of the secondary characters (the various Stark bannermen come to mind).
I'm actually glad they're not devoting any more time to the Bran plot than they are. There's not a lot of activity in some of those chapters, and screen time is limited. The show has handled Theon differently than the books did, but I don't mind the added details.
To change gears, I enjoyed The Americans, but I was not thrilled with the finale. Everything worked out too perfectly for them. They got the good intelligence, managed to avoid getting the false intelligence, didn't get caught, got rid of Claudia (but still got help from her, and she still got her revenge on the CIA guy), and they're getting back together? It just seemed a little much to me.
|
|
thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,849
|
TV
May 3, 2013 13:49:17 GMT -5
Post by thebin on May 3, 2013 13:49:17 GMT -5
I'm a bit confused by the Tully funeral confusion: I didn't read the book which covered the Tully funeral and yet it was clear to me from the show that one was Robb's uncle and Blackfish was Cat's uncle. I got that from the show- I had too. Remember when Blackfish reprimanded Edmure for calling Robb nephew and not king? It was not necessary that we knew that RIGHT at the begining of the funeral scene- which had a dramtic heft to it because viewers didn't know exactly what was going on for a few minutes. That was effective dramatic device to begin with that mysterious Viking funeral with new characters you knew were going to be signifigant but without knowing who they were just yet. All was revealed in time. I thought it worked very well.
I detest expository dialogue but wouldn't mind quick chyrons when they jump to a House or kingdom we haven't seen in a while and give a quick run down. A quick little bio when you have never seen a character or have not in a while... But frankly if I'm not having much trouble as a non-reader I'm not sure it is worthwhile. In the times when I have been at all confused it is very easy to clarify using wiki. I don't mind a show expecting some intelligence from the audience. It is rewarding.
|
|
|
TV
May 3, 2013 14:22:56 GMT -5
Post by AustinHoya03 on May 3, 2013 14:22:56 GMT -5
I'm a bit confused by the Tully funeral confusion: I didn't read the book which covered the Tully funeral and yet it was clear to me from the show that one was Robb's uncle and Blackfish was Cat's uncle. I got that from the show- I had too. Remember when Blackfish reprimanded Edmure for calling Robb nephew and not king? It was not necessary that we knew that RIGHT at the begining of the funeral scene- which had a dramtic heft to it because viewers didn't know exactly what was going on for a few minutes. That was effective dramatic device to begin with that mysterious Viking funeral with new characters you knew were going to be signifigant but without knowing who they were just yet. All was revealed in time. I thought it worked very well. I detest expository dialogue but wouldn't mind quick chyrons when they jump to a House or kingdom we haven't seen in a while and give a quick run down. A quick little bio when you have never seen a character or have not in a while... But frankly if I'm not having much trouble as a non-reader I'm not sure it is worthwhile. In the times when I have been at all confused it is very easy to clarify using wiki. I don't mind a show expecting some intelligence from the audience. It is rewarding. Inadequate storytelling which requires viewers to use Wikipedia as a crutch to understanding the plot is quite different than "expecting some intelligence from the audience." I have a great story for you. A guy throws a baseball over a fence. Another guy picks it up and throws it back. Great story, right? It's great because by not introducing the human characters or telling you anything about them I have created an "effective dramatic device." [/sarcasm] If you truly think that the Tully funeral sequence was a good one, then you and I disagree widely on what constitutes good television.
|
|