TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 15, 2011 11:04:01 GMT -5
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TC
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Post by TC on Feb 15, 2011 11:16:54 GMT -5
Someone explain to the WaPo editorial staff that it doesn't matter if Tom Coburn signs on to it if the Republican House doesn't.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 15, 2011 11:34:43 GMT -5
Someone explain to the WaPo editorial staff that it doesn't matter if Tom Coburn signs on to it if the Republican House doesn't. I think they wanted Obama to actually use his budget to address the deficit, entitlement reform, you know, the hard issues. Maybe try to start/lead the debate on the deficit. The WaPo staff were using Coburn and Durbin as examples of people actually willing to make hard decisions and sign onto compromises they might not love to address the issues. Instead, President Obama punted.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Feb 15, 2011 12:02:57 GMT -5
It is almost laughable to talk about how Obama has punted, even if it is the case here. What have the House Republicans done in the last 4 years, to say nothing of the Senate Republicans? I certainly can't put my finger on anything they've done that has added value.
Maybe it is time for Eddie Munster and his charges to pull out the calculators, roll up their sleeves, and get something done.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Feb 15, 2011 12:09:50 GMT -5
It is almost laughable to talk about how Obama has punted, even if it is the case here. What have the House Republicans done in the last 4 years, to say nothing of the Senate Republicans? I certainly can't put my finger on anything they've done that has added value. Maybe it is time for Eddie Munster and his charges to pull out the calculators, roll up their sleeves, and get something done. For the past few years, Congress been under the control of the Democrats, who have shown little to any interest in addressing these issues and which have rejected Republican solutions out of hand. While the problem is bipartisan, Democrats controlled the field.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Feb 15, 2011 12:15:20 GMT -5
I think it was more than reasonable to focus on other issues given what the country faced in late 2008 and early 2009. Fortunately, self-described Republican solutions were not necessary because the recession has been stopped in its tracks, and the alternatives would have led to even more serious unemployment.
Democrats have incorporated Republican solutions - the problem is that nothing has been 100% pure Republican so the solutions have not been portrayed as what they are. Only a die hard partisan would look at the tax cuts (a mistake, I believe) and say that Democrats have rejected Republican ideas out of hand.
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TC
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Post by TC on Feb 15, 2011 13:11:55 GMT -5
I think they wanted Obama to actually use his budget to address the deficit, entitlement reform, you know, the hard issues. Utter projection. I read the editorial, and half of it is on AMT reform, and the other half is taking him to task for not raising taxes, which he has no ability to do.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Feb 15, 2011 13:31:09 GMT -5
I think it was more than reasonable to focus on other issues given what the country faced in late 2008 and early 2009. Fortunately, self-described Republican solutions were not necessary because the recession has been stopped in its tracks, and the alternatives would have led to even more serious unemployment. Democrats have incorporated Republican solutions - the problem is that nothing has been 100% pure Republican so the solutions have not been portrayed as what they are. Only a die hard partisan would look at the tax cuts (a mistake, I believe) and say that Democrats have rejected Republican ideas out of hand. So, according to your logic, when Democrats couldn't be bothered to address the deficit, Republicans should have been fixing it rather than working on the high-priority issues?
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Feb 15, 2011 13:34:46 GMT -5
No, that is not my logic. My idea is that Republicans could have at least presented something and advocated for it on any issue of significance, be it job creation, the debt, or something else. We saw very little of the sort. Rather, the party of personal responsibility takes it personally when someone suggests that they should take responsibility. Believe me, I am upset that Obama punted, but at least he caught the snap.
For all of the talk of Eddie Munster, it is not as though his ideas received much traction in the Republican Caucus over the past few years.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Feb 15, 2011 13:40:25 GMT -5
Eddie Munster.
That's clever.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Feb 15, 2011 14:05:55 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't then President George W. Bush try to do something about Social Security by proposing to allow working people to take a portion, yes a portion, of their Social Security taxes and put them in an independent 401K like plan? And, didn't the Democrats and the press immediately tag it as wanting to privatize Social Security? And don't the Democrats and the press today continue to say Bush wanted to privatize Social Security? That was an attempt to avoid punting its part of the fiscal problem downstream.
Now I will admit the Republicans are now not offering to do anything about the costs of Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid and until someone, Democrats or Republicans, address this they are both working around the edges of the problem. Even Paul Ryan continues to dodge these issues.
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TC
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Post by TC on Feb 15, 2011 14:07:38 GMT -5
And don't the Democrats and the press today continue to say Bush wanted to privatize Social Security? That was an attempt to avoid punting its part of the fiscal problem downstream. Except that Social Security really isn't the issue and Medicare, Defense, and interest payments on the debt are.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Feb 15, 2011 14:11:24 GMT -5
No, that is not my logic. My idea is that Republicans could have at least presented something and advocated for it on any issue of significance, be it job creation, the debt, or something else. We saw very little of the sort. Rather, the party of personal responsibility takes it personally when someone suggests that they should take responsibility. Believe me, I am upset that Obama punted, but at least he caught the snap. For all of the talk of Eddie Munster, it is not as though his ideas received much traction in the Republican Caucus over the past few years. Republicans hammered Democrats for the past year, especially, on job creation and not job annihilation by passing a health care bill. Attacking them for not proposing much seems odd and the House and Senate leadership at the time made it clear that any Republican proposals were DOA (cf Cantor's comments where Obama told him "elections have consequences").
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 15, 2011 14:16:10 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't then President George W. Bush try to do something about Social Security by proposing to allow working people to take a portion, yes a portion, of their Social Security taxes and put them in an independent 401K like plan? And, didn't the Democrats and the press immediately tag it as wanting to privatize Social Security? And don't the Democrats and the press today continue to say Bush wanted to privatize Social Security? That was an attempt to avoid punting its part of the fiscal problem downstream. Now I will admit the Republicans are now not offering to do anything about the costs of Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid and until someone, Democrats or Republicans, address this they are both working around the edges of the problem. Even Paul Ryan continues to dodge these issues. The House budget always comes out after the President's. It looks like it will address entitlement reform: www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/49552.htmlIf they don't address it, I'll be just as unhappy with the House Republicans as I am with President Obama right now.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Feb 15, 2011 14:33:40 GMT -5
No, that is not my logic. My idea is that Republicans could have at least presented something and advocated for it on any issue of significance, be it job creation, the debt, or something else. We saw very little of the sort. Rather, the party of personal responsibility takes it personally when someone suggests that they should take responsibility. Believe me, I am upset that Obama punted, but at least he caught the snap. For all of the talk of Eddie Munster, it is not as though his ideas received much traction in the Republican Caucus over the past few years. Republicans hammered Democrats for the past year, especially, on job creation and not job annihilation by passing a health care bill. Attacking them for not proposing much seems odd and the House and Senate leadership at the time made it clear that any Republican proposals were DOA (cf Cantor's comments where Obama told him "elections have consequences"). You lost me at "job annihilation." I know people have made careers off this kind of Frank Luntz "messaging" baloney, but the best messages actually align with reality. Such comments reflect a lack of understanding of the health care law, but they are no doubt informed by the experience that the Banana Republicans have with sending the economy to the brink of collapse on the backs of 8 million jobs lost, killed, maimed, dismembered, and pillaged.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Feb 15, 2011 16:44:11 GMT -5
And don't the Democrats and the press today continue to say Bush wanted to privatize Social Security? That was an attempt to avoid punting its part of the fiscal problem downstream. Except that Social Security really isn't the issue and Medicare, Defense, and interest payments on the debt are. Guess you still believe the Social Security trust fund is real instead of a bunch of IOU's.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Feb 15, 2011 16:46:14 GMT -5
For someone who gets all in a tizzy whenever someone doesn't put the "ic" at the end of "Democratic Party," you sure seem to hurl around a lot of epithets and insults. Fairly childish ones too. Republican leadership has made a commitment today. We'll see if they follow through on it: www.speaker.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=225191I'm not sure when their budget is supposed to be introduced though. EDIT: Looks like about five-six weeks from now. Didn't see the Politico story til now.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 15, 2011 17:01:08 GMT -5
For someone who gets all in a tizzy whenever someone doesn't put the "ic" at the end of "Democratic Party," you sure seem to hurl around a lot of epithets and insults. Fairly childish ones too. Republican leadership has made a commitment today. We'll see if they follow through on it: www.speaker.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=225191I'm not sure when their budget is supposed to be introduced though. EDIT: Looks like about five-six weeks from now. Didn't see the Politico story til now. God. Stop being such an Opie Taylor, you Cousin Oliver.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Feb 15, 2011 18:00:38 GMT -5
For someone who gets all in a tizzy whenever someone doesn't put the "ic" at the end of "Democratic Party," you sure seem to hurl around a lot of epithets and insults. Fairly childish ones too. Republican leadership has made a commitment today. We'll see if they follow through on it: www.speaker.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=225191I'm not sure when their budget is supposed to be introduced though. EDIT: Looks like about five-six weeks from now. Didn't see the Politico story til now. My comment was strictly conservative parody. You must have no sense of humor. I have no doubt that there is some seriousness as to entitlement reform, but that is such a sliver of the problem that it is not going to be anything sustainable. There needs to be a serious discussion about income tax levels (and what have become tax cut "entitlements"), defense spending, and the like. Tax cuts were the biggest spending measure of the first 2 years of Obama, a fact lost only on those who benefitted.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Feb 16, 2011 8:53:43 GMT -5
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