HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Jan 5, 2011 13:48:17 GMT -5
I have a friend who's a Michigan alum and who attends lots of football and hockey who writes for a minor blog about UM. That blog turned me on to mgoblog.com, which I go and read every so often to reassure me that, for all the nutty stuff that goes on in HoyaTalk, we're all actually pretty sane (there's also an undercurrent of superiority that goes far beyond what we have here). They HATE Hoke. HATE HATE HATE HATE. Whereas Randy Edsall brought a 74-70 record to Maryland, Hoke's record is 47-50. Before SDSU went 9-4 this year, they were 4-8. His record at Ball State until 2008 was pedestrian bordering on bad. He's a Michigan guy, but people are of the opinion that a guy that other - lesser - schools passed on is an awful choice. With that said, I can't believe that RichRod isn't gone. UM waited about an hour to strike down the news releases. If RichRod coaches one more year, he is dead man walking - unless he wins the national championship, he's gone. Recruiting is thus doomed - will you play for Les Miles, or Harbaugh, or Hoke, or someone else? Michigan needs to do something for next year and it's not RichRod. It seems that the consensus among UM fans is that Brandon has completely butchered this process. Despite all of RichRod's problems, next year's season with RichRod has greater promise than next year's season without him. Given the personnel, it's going to be another painful transition assuming that the new coach doesn't run the spread. Even then, it seems likely that Denard is leaving the program which was the real bright spot on offense. Not everything is about next year, of course, and so if a new coach with enough promise were hired, the temporary pain might make sense. The only coach with that level of excitement was JH, which even Brandon admitted today is not going to happen. Les Miles might end up the coach, but despite his successful W-L record there seem to be some clock management issues, etc., surrounding him that will eventually catch up to him. Neither Minnesota or Indiana wanted Brady Hoke and the fan base is justified in being highly skeptical of a guy with two successful years of coaching and a sub-.500 record. He is clearly not the guy for Michigan at this point and it would be seen as an enormous failure. While perhaps another name arises and this turns out for the better, Brandon has an extremely tough task ahead. UM soured on a guy who had been successful everywhere he'd been who recruited a potential Heisman trophy winning quaterback. No matter who coaches with the attrition of personal and assuredly weak incoming recruiting class, the team will be worse next year. 2012 represents a brutal schedule considering the road games UM confronts, meaning that the next coach cannot be expected to right the ship over the next two years. With what happened to RichRod, that's not a great prospective for any new coach. I realize the fan base was clamoring for a change, but I really think that UM would have been better off with RichRod for one more year unless they could get JH. When that seemed like the most likely scenario, this all made some sense. However, trading RichRod for Brady Hoke will not appease anyone and the program will be the worse in the short term and will likely be going through this process again in a few more years since he will not have the support of the fan base either. Hopefully it turns out differently, but it seems that Brandon may have misplayed this one. rodriguez had to go. keeping him is like putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound. brandon went through his criteria in evaluating the program and rodriguez was a massive failure in every way.
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adlai
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Post by adlai on Jan 5, 2011 13:52:17 GMT -5
this press conference is interesting. one second brandon says he thinks harbaugh is going to the nfl, the next he says he talks to him often. the more i hear brandon talk, the more i think it's going to be a big name (ie not hoke). i just pray brandon started this process already. if not, current players and recruits are going to bolt like it's the titanic. I hope you're right, but I just don't see it happening right now. It seems that JH had a change of heart about the Michigan job which I think doomed this process. With him being out, I'm just not sure what big name coach would want to walk into this mess right now considering the last big name coach only got three years.
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adlai
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Post by adlai on Jan 5, 2011 14:03:24 GMT -5
rodriguez had to go. keeping him is like putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound. brandon went through his criteria in evaluating the program and rodriguez was a massive failure in every way. RichRod may not have been the right fit and everything else, but one more year of RichRod would have been better than three years of Hoke and then doing this all over again. If the program turns a corner, great, things are on track. If not, then fire him after the OSU game next year and do a proper search. Right now, this has to be done in very short order. If the right coach (i.e. JH) had been lined up, fine, you're right, RichRod should have been let go. However, as is clear from the mere fact that Hoke is being mentioned seriously, I don't think that giving RichRod a fourth year would have been the worst possible outcome at this point. That said, with how this was played by Brandon after the bowl game, clearly there was no going back from firing him. However, that's on Brandon ultimately.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jan 5, 2011 14:16:52 GMT -5
It's not that college coaches can't make good NFL coaches, but the NFL system is largely predicated on building up experience as an NFL assistant, so there are fewer teams looking to the college ranks to pick up HC talent. Additionally, as CFB (unfortunately) becomes more of a pre-professional league, college coaching searches give extra points to applicants with successful NFL coaching experience (see Weis, Charlie and Sherman, Mike). Harbaugh will remain a strong candidate for any college head coaching job, even if he goes to the NFL and is canned faster than Lane Kiffin. ____________________________________________ To those of you stressing about Brady Hoke: when's the last time you actually watched an SDSU game? Might that perhaps be a better indication of his coaching abilities than simply googling his W/L record? Would y'all prefer Les Miles to Brady Hoke? ____________________________________________ Here's tOSU's half of the scoring summary from the Orange Bowl: 7-0: Terrelle Pryor rushed to the right for 37 yard gain. Terrelle Pryor fumbled. Dane Sanzenbacher recovered fumble. 14-7: Daniel Herron rushed up the middle for 9 yard gain 21-7: Terrelle Pryor passed to Dane Sanzenbacher to the left for 15 yard gain 28-7: Terrelle Pryor passed to DeVier Posey to the left for 43 yard gain 31-13: Devin Barclay kicked a 46-yard field goal At least Devin Barclay (presumably) still has his gold pants. ____________________________________________ I predict Ryan Mallett will become the NFL successor to Brett Farve, throwing tons of TDs and INTs, speaking with a down-home accent, and providing Hoyatalk with several choice RDF rants.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jan 5, 2011 14:24:29 GMT -5
To those of you stressing about Brady Hoke: when's the last time you actually watched an SDSU game? Might that perhaps be a better indication of his coaching abilities than simply googling his W/L record? Would y'all prefer Les Miles to Brady Hoke? Yes. And don't call me "y'all."
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Jan 5, 2011 14:50:29 GMT -5
rodriguez had to go. keeping him is like putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound. brandon went through his criteria in evaluating the program and rodriguez was a massive failure in every way. RichRod may not have been the right fit and everything else, but one more year of RichRod would have been better than three years of Hoke and then doing this all over again. If the program turns a corner, great, things are on track. If not, then fire him after the OSU game next year and do a proper search. Right now, this has to be done in very short order. If the right coach (i.e. JH) had been lined up, fine, you're right, RichRod should have been let go. However, as is clear from the mere fact that Hoke is being mentioned seriously, I don't think that giving RichRod a fourth year would have been the worst possible outcome at this point. That said, with how this was played by Brandon after the bowl game, clearly there was no going back from firing him. However, that's on Brandon ultimately. i see your point but i don't think keeping rodriguez was an option. changing the defensive staff was something thrown out there but what good DC in their right mind would go to michigan under rodriguez with the real chance he would have been fired next year anyway. my problem with brandon is that he should have done this in november after the osu game. he should have known that harbaugh would have a number of nfl offers come january and he could have beaten them to the punch if he just shot old yeller back then. if it's hoke, then it's hoke. i'll give him the same chance i gave rodriguez. despite his w/l record, i hear nothing but great things about him as a coach and recruiter. the main priority is keeping the current roster as intact as possible. that is brandons job until he names a coach.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 5, 2011 14:51:56 GMT -5
Neither Minnesota or Indiana wanted Brady Hoke and the fan base is justified in being highly skeptical of a guy with two successful years of coaching and a sub-.500 record. No idea about whether Hoke is the right guy for the job. But let's be honest here--it's just as likely that Hoke turned down Minnesota & Indiana as it is that they turned him down.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Jan 5, 2011 14:54:22 GMT -5
I would be willing to offer up Slick Rick Neuheisel to coach the Wolverines. ;D
Also, just curious, what's with Fat Weis bolting the Chiefs to take the OC job at Florida? I know we can easily make "Florida is a professional team, too" jokes, but seriously, I don't get it. UF couldn't have offered him more money than he was getting paid by the Chiefs, could it?
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Post by williambraskyiii on Jan 5, 2011 14:58:10 GMT -5
RichRod may not have been the right fit and everything else, but one more year of RichRod would have been better than three years of Hoke and then doing this all over again. If the program turns a corner, great, things are on track. If not, then fire him after the OSU game next year and do a proper search. Right now, this has to be done in very short order. If the right coach (i.e. JH) had been lined up, fine, you're right, RichRod should have been let go. However, as is clear from the mere fact that Hoke is being mentioned seriously, I don't think that giving RichRod a fourth year would have been the worst possible outcome at this point. That said, with how this was played by Brandon after the bowl game, clearly there was no going back from firing him. However, that's on Brandon ultimately. i see your point but i don't think keeping rodriguez was an option. changing the defensive staff was something thrown out there but what good DC in their right mind would go to michigan under rodriguez with the real chance he would have been fired next year anyway. my problem with brandon is that he should have done this in november after the osu game. he should have known that harbaugh would have a number of nfl offers come january and he could have beaten them to the punch if he just shot old yeller back then. if it's hoke, then it's hoke. i'll give him the same chance i gave rodriguez. despite his w/l record, i hear nothing but great things about him as a coach and recruiter. the main priority is keeping the current roster as intact as possible. that is brandons job until he names a coach. The name "Hoke" reminds me of Driving Miss Daisy, and we all know how that story turned out. I really, really hope that Shoelace doesn't transfer. He was the only enjoyable element of the team (along with the WR corps) this season.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Jan 5, 2011 15:02:43 GMT -5
To those of you stressing about Brady Hoke: when's the last time you actually watched an SDSU game? Might that perhaps be a better indication of his coaching abilities than simply googling his W/L record? Would y'all prefer Les Miles to Brady Hoke? Yes. And don't call me "y'all." The aforemenetioned friend had a post on his blog where he said that RichRod wasn't prepared for Michigan. That WVU was small potatoes compared to Michigan. And that he couldn't hack it. There were lots of problems with this theory (notably the one that, like it or not, WVU has been in the national championship conversation more often this decade than UM), but he does make a good point - that UM is the big time, and two or three steps up from SDSU or Ball State. And Hoke has taken a little time to raise up downtrodden programs - a 4-8 record at Michigan in the first year of a league that includes Nebraska would be a death sentence Les Miles, by comparison, is certifiably insane, but he's won a national championship and has survived six years at a school whose fans are even crazier than he is. I'd take the Mad Hatter.
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adlai
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Post by adlai on Jan 5, 2011 15:12:46 GMT -5
my problem with brandon is that he should have done this in november after the osu game. he should have known that harbaugh would have a number of nfl offers come january and he could have beaten them to the punch if he just shot old yeller back then. You're exactly right and I think this is where my fear about where this process goes from here is based. DB already erred big time on this transition and so I'm somewhat skeptical of where this is now going. As for Hoke, the issue is less whether or not he's a good coach as whether or not he can succeed at Michigan. He may be a "Michigan man", but he would be walking into an extremely difficult situation with a highly impatient fan base. He runs a pro-style offense that would likely see a rocky transition back, meaning that at least the next two years are unlikely to be good. Whether or not he's a good coach, he's got a sub-.500 record and has never won a conference championship in the MAC or MWC, and after losing JH no one would be excited about the hire. RichRod had four BE championships coming in and a winning percentage over .700. At least part of the fan base was extremely excited by the hire. If he only got three years, I don't see Hoke getting more than that myself without some sort of minor miracle. Basically, it seems like he would be set up to fail. Recognizing that the problem with RichRod was the "fit"/"situation", I have a hard time believing that Hoke would pass this test.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Jan 5, 2011 15:16:43 GMT -5
I would be willing to offer up Slick Rick Neuheisel to coach the Wolverines. ;D Also, just curious, what's with Fat Weis bolting the Chiefs to take the OC job at Florida? I know we can easily make "Florida is a professional team, too" jokes, but seriously, I don't get it. UF couldn't have offered him more money than he was getting paid by the Chiefs, could it? There are a couple of factors there. Personally, I will reserve full judgment until I hear Weis address it himself -- which means I'll probably never know for sure. In any case, one factor that really seems to stand out is that his son is graduating high school and wants to go into coaching. He is enrolling at Florida, so Daddy will be around sonny. Also, Muschamp agreed to have Charlie Jr. be an assistant on the team. I have no idea exactly what he is/will be assisting with. But in any case, that seems to have been a major factor in the decision. Also, there are a lot of rumors that Weis didn't get along with the Chiefs Head Coach and front office. Again, how much that played in the decision, I don't know, but I think it did to a degree. Additionally, the head coach is good friends with Josh McDaniels who is now available, since Denver canned him. The rumors that he would take the OC position started even before the Weis story broke. Also, there was a really good article that I stumbled onto on a Fox Sports site. I will try to find it. It detailed much of the front office and inner rumblings in the Chiefs organization. It was only one person's opinion, but he is a noted journalist who has covered the chiefs for more than a decade. Additionally, he is a Chief fan -- not sure if that makes his opinion more or less credible. But in any case, it was an interesting read. I will try to find it.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Jan 5, 2011 15:22:03 GMT -5
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Jan 5, 2011 15:24:35 GMT -5
Neither Minnesota or Indiana wanted Brady Hoke and the fan base is justified in being highly skeptical of a guy with two successful years of coaching and a sub-.500 record. No idea about whether Hoke is the right guy for the job. But let's be honest here--it's just as likely that Hoke turned down Minnesota & Indiana as it is that they turned him down. hoke did turn down minnesota. www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jan/04/if-hoke-goes-does-sdsu-man-have-replace-him/#
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jan 5, 2011 15:25:53 GMT -5
Here we were having a nice conversation and then rooter had to go and bring up Florida.......
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 5, 2011 15:30:07 GMT -5
Well, that does speak to his intelligence. Only an idiot (See Tim Brewster) or a desperate person (See Tubby Smith) would want to work for Joel Maturi. Hopefully Jerry Kill is the latter.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Jan 5, 2011 20:28:38 GMT -5
Here we were having a nice conversation and then rooter had to go and bring up Florida....... Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned big time.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jan 6, 2011 1:30:30 GMT -5
And Hoke has taken a little time to raise up downtrodden programs - a 4-8 record at Michigan in the first year of a league that includes Nebraska would be a death sentence Michigan was 3-9 in Rich Rodriguez's first year following a 9-4 season under Lloyd Carr. SDSU's W/L record for the past 5 seasons2006: 3-9 (Chuck Long) 2007: 4-8 (Long) 2008: 2-10 (Long) 2009: 4-8 (Hoke) 2010: 9-4 (Hoke) losses @mizzou, @byu, @tcu, Utah As usual, W/L records don't tell the full story. As a casual follower of TCU/Mountain West football, I have seen a handful of San Diego State games over the past few years. Hoke inherited a joke of a program. And those four losses this season? They came at Mizzou by 3 points, at BYU by 3, at TCU by 5, and versus Utah by 4. I'm not saying Hoke should be the next coach at UM (far from it), but it's interesting that the mere mention of his name provokes shrieks from the Michigan faithful. What's that you were saying a few pages back about hubris and coaching hires? Personally, I hope the Wolverines hire someone great. CFB is much more fun when Michigan, Notre Dame, and the rest of the classic football schools (no hifi, Florida isn't included) have strong programs.
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Jan 6, 2011 8:35:21 GMT -5
watching the brandon press conference, all the harbaugh talk was telling. it now seems that harbaugh told brandon he had no interest in coaching michigan. not sure if this was last year, this year, last week or all of the above. stephen ross called brandon to verify that harbaugh didn't want the michigan job so he could offer him $7+ mill (insane!). ross is a michigan alum and BIG TIME donor. he didn't want to compete with michigan for harbaugh.
what now for michigan? who knows?
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adlai
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Post by adlai on Jan 6, 2011 9:37:04 GMT -5
And Hoke has taken a little time to raise up downtrodden programs - a 4-8 record at Michigan in the first year of a league that includes Nebraska would be a death sentence Michigan was 3-9 in Rich Rodriguez's first year following a 9-4 season under Lloyd Carr. SDSU's W/L record for the past 5 seasons2006: 3-9 (Chuck Long) 2007: 4-8 (Long) 2008: 2-10 (Long) 2009: 4-8 (Hoke) 2010: 9-4 (Hoke) losses @mizzou, @byu, @tcu, Utah As usual, W/L records don't tell the full story. As a casual follower of TCU/Mountain West football, I have seen a handful of San Diego State games over the past few years. Hoke inherited a joke of a program. And those four losses this season? They came at Mizzou by 3 points, at BYU by 3, at TCU by 5, and versus Utah by 4. I'm not saying Hoke should be the next coach at UM (far from it), but it's interesting that the mere mention of his name provokes shrieks from the Michigan faithful. What's that you were saying a few pages back about hubris and coaching hires? Personally, I hope the Wolverines hire someone great. CFB is much more fun when Michigan, Notre Dame, and the rest of the classic football schools (no hifi, Florida isn't included) have strong programs. I also have a passing interest in the MWC. I see your point that Hoke had some narrow losses, but at the same time SDSU beat exactly one team with a winning record in the regular season. Other than that game (AF), the best team they beat in conference ended up with 3 wins on the year. Out of conference, their best win was over 4-win Utah State. They beat Navy convincingly in their bowl game as well, for what it's worth. However, given Navy's schedule, I personally don't think he should get the Michigan job because of it. I guess at the end of the day it comes down to what the SD columnist wrote in the article posted yesterday: "As much as I like Hoke, and I like him plenty, he really hasn’t done a hell of a lot." Maybe it would work out, but I would think Michigan can and must do better personally. In sum, I think one of the Michigan blogs said it best: if Hoke had been an assistant at Michigan State instead of Michigan, his name would never have come up in this process.
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