turbohoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 320
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Post by turbohoya on Aug 10, 2010 14:24:33 GMT -5
Was looking through today's rumors on ESPN.com and they have a small blurb on Gtown recruiting: insider.espn.go.com/ncb/features/rumors well in the blurb they quote and link a Casual Hoya piece, highlighting the following: "No other way to slice it other than saying this is REALLY BAD NEWS for a Georgetown program still without a recruit in the 2011 class and getting KILLED by its Big East rivals on the recruiting trail," Am I the only one who feels that the pessimism, especially if it starts getting quoted and sliced in the outside world, might just very well do a lot more harm than thought? I know we are all entitled to our own opinions but doesn't running a blog come with a certain amount of responsibility? Is "Hoyas in a recruiting slump?" the message we want to be sending out?
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Aug 10, 2010 14:35:09 GMT -5
Was looking through today's rumors on ESPN.com and they have a small blurb on Gtown recruiting: insider.espn.go.com/ncb/features/rumors well in the blurb they quote and link a Casual Hoya piece, highlighting the following: "No other way to slice it other than saying this is REALLY BAD NEWS for a Georgetown program still without a recruit in the 2011 class and getting KILLED by its Big East rivals on the recruiting trail," Am I the only one who feels that the pessimism, especially if it starts getting quoted and sliced in the outside world, might just very well do a lot more harm than thought? I know we are all entitled to our own opinions but doesn't running a blog come with a certain amount of responsibility? Is "Hoyas in a recruiting slump?" the message we want to be sending out? How's the optimism been working for the program? If you are involved with players who base decisions off the talk on internet boards--you have bigger problems then losing recruits--you need to overhaul your recruiting efforts and examine what type of coaches you have hired.
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 11,977
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Post by hoyaboya on Aug 10, 2010 14:41:29 GMT -5
Let's see...we haven't won a tournament game in 2 years and we're getting killed on the recruiting front. Yep, it takes a die-hard Hoyas fan posting on message boards to figure out that things aren't totally kosher right now. I say blame the fans, damn it!
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Aug 10, 2010 14:46:24 GMT -5
I eman, ive always believed that these boards contribute in some way to the thinking of our recruits. They do read this board, believe it or not.
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
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Post by TBird41 on Aug 10, 2010 14:52:40 GMT -5
Was looking through today's rumors on ESPN.com and they have a small blurb on Gtown recruiting: insider.espn.go.com/ncb/features/rumors well in the blurb they quote and link a Casual Hoya piece, highlighting the following: "No other way to slice it other than saying this is REALLY BAD NEWS for a Georgetown program still without a recruit in the 2011 class and getting KILLED by its Big East rivals on the recruiting trail," Am I the only one who feels that the pessimism, especially if it starts getting quoted and sliced in the outside world, might just very well do a lot more harm than thought? I know we are all entitled to our own opinions but doesn't running a blog come with a certain amount of responsibility? Is "Hoyas in a recruiting slump?" the message we want to be sending out? How's the optimism been working for the program? If you are involved with players who base decisions off the talk on internet boards--you have bigger problems then losing recruits--you need to overhaul your recruiting efforts and examine what type of coaches you have hired. Your grasp of what does and doesn't influence and effect teenagers and their parents continues to astound. Preach on! Preach on! How's the preaching going on the other board, btw?
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Aug 10, 2010 15:04:24 GMT -5
It's all of your guys faults we haven't been landing recruits. Screw you guys and your darn negativity you're holding back the program.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,663
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 10, 2010 15:07:00 GMT -5
The pessimism does hurt, especially from a pseudo-legit source like Casual Hoya.
You can argue for the POV all you want; it still hurts.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Aug 10, 2010 15:14:48 GMT -5
It's all of your guys faults we haven't been landing recruits. Screw you guys and your darn negativity you're holding back the program. WOW even after this thread is created... some people still cant be open-minded about what thoughts they put into the minds of recruits...
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Diablo
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 106
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Post by Diablo on Aug 10, 2010 15:15:20 GMT -5
Let's start afresh.
Hey recruits! We haven't won a tournament game in two years and our top two prospects committed to our two biggest rivals, but it's always sunny in Georgetown!
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damnhoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 650
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Post by damnhoya on Aug 10, 2010 15:19:29 GMT -5
I don't think we should be concerned about an insider blurb from Eric Angevine: ericangevine.com/I think we all have lofty expectations for this program in terms of recruiting (myself included) but recruiting isn't the end game of college bball. It's winning. Yes, players win games but look at some of the programs that did well this past year (West Virginia, Butler). These teams aren't pulling in the best of the best (if you want to quibble with me about their recruiting classes, that's fine, but they aren't recruiting like Cuse or Nova, or the types of guys we talk about regularly on this board). West Virginia is getting it done with 3 star guys every year (again, we can quibble with the rankings themselves but my larger point still holds true). What we need is more fire from the team (including the coach) that we actually have (a sense of urgency, wanting it more than your opponent). I'm very interested in how Wright/Freeman/Vaughn/Clark and crew response this year (I'm rather optimistic). Leaving aside Ty for a minute, I wonder how this board would react if we had Nova's current 2011 class (they have 3 commits, Ty and 2 3-star guys). I'm 100% positive there would be some posters who would say JTIII isn't getting it done and 3-star isn't good enough. So zero 4 or 5-star recruits isn't getting it done but would 3 3-star recruits be getting it done for this board if we had that right now? (because I think we could have that). I'm as disappointed as many others that we didn't land Rak after all the time we invested in him (not quite as disappointed with Ty) but the sky isn't falling yet. No matter how you slice it (even if we land the best of the best next year), the team will have a down year after this year with Jason and Henry as the only seniors. Team will be very young so people need to temper their expectations regardless (again, I'm not saying throw in the towel, just remain level-headed). Also, it's easy to say, "go grab Bishop Daniels (or insert the name of another recruit)" and get him to commit. How many people on this board have actually seen Daniels play (I would say not more than 5 if I have to guess). I trust JTIII more than JoeHoya in terms of recruiting. I also think it's all too easy to bash JTIII when almost none of the people on this board have much of a clue what he is doing in terms of recruiting. Recruiting is a dirty game nowadays and you have to live with the fact that you aren't going to get everybody you want if you don't do certain things to butter up players, handlers, family, etc. (especially the guys this board wants). We still have a good amount of options out there for this class (both upfront and SF). I would really like to see the staff grab 2 big men and a small forward (whatever else they do, I don't care). So maybe I'll be ranting like some others in 2 or 3 months if we haven't landed anyone, but until then, I'll reserve judgment. JTIII didn't haphazardly hire Kirby all of a sudden. Watch out for the deep south as the recruiting saga of 2011 continues.
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Dhall
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,679
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Post by Dhall on Aug 10, 2010 15:21:12 GMT -5
There are negative blog posts about every college basketball program with a fan following.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,582
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Post by guru on Aug 10, 2010 15:22:48 GMT -5
How's the optimism been working for the program? If you are involved with players who base decisions off the talk on internet boards--you have bigger problems then losing recruits--you need to overhaul your recruiting efforts and examine what type of coaches you have hired. Your grasp of what does and doesn't influence and effect teenagers and their parents continues to astound. Preach on! Preach on! How's the preaching going on the other board, btw? Gotta love ol' RDF. Often wrong. Never in doubt.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,663
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 10, 2010 15:25:03 GMT -5
Let's start afresh. Hey recruits! We haven't won a tournament game in two years and our top two prospects committed to our two biggest rivals, but it's always sunny in Georgetown! This is kind of the point, right? According to almost every other measure except NCAA tourney wins (BE Tourney, Ken Pom, Sagarin, AP votes, Media Top 25s, NCAA Seeds, etc.) Georgetown was a Top 10-15 team last year. We were Top 10 in 2007 and 2008, as well, and while not that good in 2009, we were one of the best teams not to make the tourney. There's at least 10 ways to evaluate a team and how good it was, and our own fans repeatedly always frame the team's performance using the metric that makes the team look the worst.Does this strike you as fair or a good idea? If we had snuck into the tourney as a 10 seed and made the Final Four, everyone here would be calling our season "lucky" -- just like they did in 2001. Furthermore, spare me the recruiting crap. There's a whole lot of blah blah blah here because no one knows how good these kids are going to be or who we are going to get. I'm not saying losing Johnson or Christmas is wonderful; it's not. But some of you view it as if these are known commodities -- they aren't. We'll see if Hairston + Thornton is better than Lubick + Starks, for example. How'd DaShonte Riley end up? Vernon Goodridge? Yes, I'm sure Rakeem will be a good player. But it isn't the end of the freaking world. There's a whole subset of fans that would rather win recruiting rankings than games.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,663
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 10, 2010 15:27:13 GMT -5
There are negative blog posts about every college basketball program with a fan following. Yes, there are. Does that mean that none of them affect recruiting? Furthermore, most of these programs have a dominant site (whether Scout or Rivals or whatever) that is relentlessly rah rah. The Hoyas do not.
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damnhoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 650
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Post by damnhoya on Aug 10, 2010 15:28:08 GMT -5
Let's start afresh. Hey recruits! We haven't won a tournament game in two years and our top two prospects committed to our two biggest rivals, but it's always sunny in Georgetown! This is kind of the point, right? According to almost every other measure except NCAA tourney wins (BE Tourney, Ken Pom, Sagarin, AP votes, Media Top 25s, NCAA Seeds, etc.) Georgetown was a Top 10-15 team last year. We were Top 10 in 2007 and 2008, as well, and while not that good in 2009, we were one of the best teams not to make the tourney. There's at least 10 ways to evaluate a team and how good it was, and our own fans repeatedly always frame the team's performance using the metric that makes the team look the worst.Does this strike you as fair or a good idea? If we had snuck into the tourney as a 10 seed and made the Final Four, everyone here would be calling our season "lucky" -- just like they did in 2001. Furthermore, spare me the recruiting crap. There's a whole lot of blah blah blah here because no one knows how good these kids are going to be or who we are going to get. I'm not saying losing Johnson or Christmas is wonderful; it's not. But some of you view it as if these are known commodities -- they aren't. We'll see if Hairston + Thornton is better than Lubick + Starks, for example. How'd DaShonte Riley end up? Vernon Goodridge? Yes, I'm sure Rakeem will be a good player. But it isn't the end of the freaking world. There's a whole subset of fans that would rather win recruiting rankings than games. Well put.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Aug 10, 2010 15:31:52 GMT -5
Exactly SF.
The Georgetown Fan base is one of the most negative in the country. Everyone here is so pessimistic. The majority of message boards are filled with homers who are optimistic no matter what. We don't have anyone like that here.
Most message boards are unrealistically optimistic 90% of the time and then explode in negativity when something really bad happens but a few days latter they're back to sunny and optimistic.
Our message boards are very different from most. It's very negative and depressing here.
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Diablo
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 106
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Post by Diablo on Aug 10, 2010 15:34:30 GMT -5
Let's start afresh. Hey recruits! We haven't won a tournament game in two years and our top two prospects committed to our two biggest rivals, but it's always sunny in Georgetown! This is kind of the point, right? According to almost every other measure except NCAA tourney wins (BE Tourney, Ken Pom, Sagarin, AP votes, Media Top 25s, NCAA Seeds, etc.) Georgetown was a Top 10-15 team last year. We were Top 10 in 2007 and 2008, as well, and while not that good in 2009, we were one of the best teams not to make the tourney. There's at least 10 ways to evaluate a team and how good it was, and our own fans repeatedly always frame the team's performance using the metric that makes the team look the worst.Does this strike you as fair or a good idea? If we had snuck into the tourney as a 10 seed and made the Final Four, everyone here would be calling our season "lucky" -- just like they did in 2001. Furthermore, spare me the recruiting crap. There's a whole lot of blah blah blah here because no one knows how good these kids are going to be or who we are going to get. I'm not saying losing Johnson or Christmas is wonderful; it's not. But some of you view it as if these are known commodities -- they aren't. We'll see if Hairston + Thornton is better than Lubick + Starks, for example. How'd DaShonte Riley end up? Vernon Goodridge? Yes, I'm sure Rakeem will be a good player. But it isn't the end of the freaking world. There's a whole subset of fans that would rather win recruiting rankings than games. I completely agree with you. Georgetown went to a damn Final Four in 2007. Many of the teams with top recruiting classes haven't come close to this feat. And those that have, they experienced a similar "down year" as Gtown did in 2009 (UConn, UCLA, UNC, Texas...). But these talkboards are places to vent, whine, fight, and criticize all under the protection of anonymity. I don't think it is the fans responsibility to show how loving, caring and welcoming a program is. These blogs/talk boards show how passionate and die-hard the fan base is, and how much the people that support the program take every dribble of the basketball seriously. And that is a good thing, regardless of what is being said.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,663
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 10, 2010 15:41:10 GMT -5
Diablo, I don't disagree. I'm not saying people need to change their point of view. I'm just saying that negative comments and points of view do have some level of effect. I doubt it is huge, but perception can create reality, and people forget how pervasive internet chatter can be.
Because there's a community of about 100 who actually post, or because Casual Hoya makes really no claims to know basketball, I think people don't really realize how many people read sites like Hoyatalk or Casual Hoya. It's not small.
That said, I'm not a fan of the anonymity. I'm not sure why we should all be able to say things we wouldn't say to someone's face. There's a level of civility and understanding that the internet doesn't have.
The irony of someone writing a post at work about a player's lack of work ethic is stunning.
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Diablo
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 106
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Post by Diablo on Aug 10, 2010 15:48:15 GMT -5
I think this negative post on negativity is doing exactly what it criticizes.
Look at the blogs/boards after our wins over UConn, Duke, Nova and Cuse last year. People were ecstatic.
Following Georgetown basketball is a roller-coaster, I don't think any blog/talkboard is particularly negative all the time, just when we lose to Rutgers, or miss out on a huge recruit. This is a hard time to be positive, but things will change.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,702
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Post by DFW HOYA on Aug 10, 2010 15:53:33 GMT -5
Our message boards are very different from most. It's very negative and depressing here. You haven't seen the Syracuse.com site, have you? A pre-season loss to LeMoyne and that board was already taking reservations for Jim Boeheim's retirement party. I don't see this board as particularly negative. The real negative types either don't post or go elsewhere. But a few people take recruiting way too seriously, even back to the earliest days of the board where posters bemoaned the huge loss of Antric Klaiber to UConn. Who? (Exactly.)
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