The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Jul 21, 2010 12:18:30 GMT -5
This Shirley Sherrod episode just ticks me off.
On one hand, I'm ticked (but not at all surprised) at the conservative websites who took a page out of Michael Moore's book and doctored her speech to make it look like she was a racist. They had to have known full well what her speech was really about. They knew exactly what they were doing, and they deliberately plotted to ruin this good woman's career just to score political points against Obama.
But at the same time, I'm ticked at the NAACP and the Administration for bending to the conservatives' pressure and completely folding at the first sign of any trouble. How long would it have taken to at least watch the entire speech? The NAACP is especially guilty here - the speech happened at their own freaking event!
In short, the conservatives were scoundrels, but the Administration and the NAACP were idiots. As a result of both of those, a woman who did nothing wrong and was sending a fine message gets fired.
I wish the Obama Administration would just grow a pair and stick it to the conservatives every time they're wrong like this, instead of folding like wet tissue paper. I want them to just ignore the media and their constant frenzies over nothing and just get on with it.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jul 21, 2010 12:19:59 GMT -5
This Shirley Sherrod episode just ticks me off. On one hand, I'm ticked (but not at all surprised) at the conservative websites who took a page out of Michael Moore's book and doctored her speech to make it look like she was a racist. They had to have known full well what her speech was really about. They knew exactly what they were doing, and they deliberately plotted to ruin this good woman's career just to score political points against Obama. But at the same time, I'm ticked at the NAACP and the Administration for bending to the conservatives' pressure and completely folding at the first sign of any trouble. How long would it have taken to at least watch the entire speech? The NAACP is especially guilty here - the speech happened at their own freaking event! In short, the conservatives were scoundrels, but the Administration and the NAACP were idiots. As a result of both of those, a woman who did nothing wrong and was sending a fine message gets fired. I wish the Obama Administration would just grow a pair and stick it to the conservatives every time they're wrong like this, instead of folding like wet tissue paper. I want them to just ignore the media and their constant frenzies over nothing and just get on with it. Obama ignore what the media says? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 21, 2010 12:23:07 GMT -5
This is an important issue. I think the greatest failing here is that people took conservative activists and commentators at their word. Based on the available evidence, that is, at best, naive and, at worst, damaging to the country.
Here, it is both the former and the latter, and it has, thus far, cost us a distinguished public servant.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jul 21, 2010 12:25:12 GMT -5
This is an important issue. I think the greatest failing here is that people took conservative activists and commentators at their word. Based on the available evidence, that is, at best, naive and, at worst, damaging to the country. Here, it is both the former and the latter, and it has, thus far, cost us a distinguished public servant. You need more commas in your post. Jeez.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 21, 2010 12:29:09 GMT -5
Apologies for offending your French-like linguistic sensitivities.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 21, 2010 12:40:33 GMT -5
I agree. I get pretty sick of people hurling around the word "racist," whether those people are liberals or conservatives.
On the other hand, it'd also be nice if John Lewis apologized for calling people racist who allegedly called him the n-word, even though there is no discernible evidence that that ever happened. If you're going to make charges like that, you really need to be able to back it up.
And Spencer Ackerman should probably apologize for....well, existing.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 21, 2010 12:58:31 GMT -5
On the other hand, it'd also be nice if John Lewis apologized for calling people racist who allegedly called him the n-word, even though there is no discernible evidence that that ever happened. If you're going to make charges like that, you really need to be able to back it up. Where did John Lewis call people racist? He and others have claimed to have been called a n-word, f-word, etc. I have not seen anything beyond that. Breitbart has posted a video that some people have unusually taken as proof that something did not occur. I trust that people can understand some hesitancy toward taking Breitbart at his word.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jul 21, 2010 13:00:14 GMT -5
On the other hand, it'd also be nice if John Lewis apologized for calling people racist who allegedly called him the n-word, even though there is no discernible evidence that that ever happened. If you're going to make charges like that, you really need to be able to back it up. Okay, so essentially your position is that Breitbart is wrong in the Sherrod instance but Andrew Breitbart, who is the person who started the whole "no one called John Lewis anything" narrative could not possibly be wrong in that instance also, because there is a youtube video of a person in a static position and you can't hear anyone calling out racial slurs on that one video? That kind of circumstantial evidence didn't even pass the Bill O'Reilly smell test. There are like four or five people I can find quoted that say that it happened (Lewis, Carson, a staffer for Carson, Cleaver, Heath Shuler), and I can't find one quote of John Lewis calling anyone a racist in response to it.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jul 21, 2010 13:00:49 GMT -5
Where did John Lewis call people racist? He didn't as far as I can see. There's two quotes I find from him on this and neither of them call anyone a racist.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 21, 2010 13:02:50 GMT -5
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jul 21, 2010 13:05:12 GMT -5
I think the problem here is Sherrod, by the modern definition of "racism" was in fact being racist.
You used to have to do something to be racist. You know, deny someone a job, refuse to work with someone of another race, promote violence or some subhuman treatment of a person based on race.
Now, you really just have to mention race and you're a racist. Or you have to disagree with someone of another race. Or you have to, god forbid, act like race exists. Immediately you can be labeled a "bad person" and "not to be taken seriously."
And in this case Sherrod and the Spooners were at different times painted as racists. The Spooners were racists when Sherrod was telling the story of how the man "acted superior" implying it was because she is black. Sherrod then became the racist when she was thought to have denied the Spooners the "full force of her help" because they were white.
And what happened? Well it looks like Sherrod actually did her job and the Spooners not only appreciated it but came to her aid when she lost it. Hmmm, so the black woman helped the old white people and the old white people helped the black woman? But how can that be? Glowing box in living room tells me red state whites are full of hate and then when I hit this button it tells me black people love to "play the race card" whenever possible.
Maybe the lesson here is most people are just living their lives and few are as (no pun intended) black-and-white racist as the media likes to dumb it down to be. Everyone is human and that includes being aware of race. But I think a lot fewer people are really, truly actionably racist than people think.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 21, 2010 13:07:00 GMT -5
There is not just one video. There are tons of them. I've seen at least six different ones. Nowhere is the word heard on any of them.
I do correct myself on one point though. It wasn't John Lewis himself who called people racist. You are correct about that. He just reported the demonstrably false charge that led so many others to call the people at that event racist.
But I'm happy at least that you haven't tried to defend Spencer Ackerman. Maybe we can have some common ground there. (EDIT: In addition to the common ground on this Sherrod episode, in which Breitbart definitely acted irresponsibly, I won't even pretend to dispute that, and those in the NAACP and administration screwed it up as well.)
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 21, 2010 13:08:46 GMT -5
You may want to find out more about those videos, which undoubtedly include some made hours after the incident, which has been confirmed by at least 4 members of Congress.
I give credit to Lewis for not making a bigger issue of it. The only discussions of this incident right now are largely taking place in conservative activist circles who, for some reason, feel oppressed on behalf of the goblins who made a scene in and around the Capitol in the days and hours leading up to the HCR vote.
I am troubled by the degree to which people feel they can get away with accusing people of calling others racist.
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hoyaclap
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Post by hoyaclap on Jul 21, 2010 14:19:30 GMT -5
There is not just one video. There are tons of them. I've seen at least six different ones. Nowhere is the word heard on any of them. I do correct myself on one point though. It wasn't John Lewis himself who called people racist. You are correct about that. He just reported the demonstrably false charge that led so many others to call the people at that event racist. since when does the absence of video evidence at an event with thousands of people yelling qualify as grounds to define a "demonstrably false charge"?
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Jul 21, 2010 14:28:37 GMT -5
No Hoyaclap! He has seen six videos! At least! Six! There are obviously racists in the tea party movement. Here's one: www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/20/AR2010072004429.htmlMost people in the tea party movement are not racist, but do you really want to say that there's no way that one of the hundreds of foaming-at-the-mouth angry protesters didn't say the n-word to John Lewis? I'm with Mike Pence - John Lewis is a tremendously honorable man and if he says it happened, it happened. What that has to do with anything else, I have no idea. Honestly, the racial stuff that the GOP has been throwing against the wall is just confusing to me. The black panther thing in Philly for example. Two "New Black Panthers" show up at a black polling place and make fools of themselves, and apparently there is a grand conspiracy to let them off the hook because we all know the New Black Panthers were the force that got Obama elected.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Jul 21, 2010 14:35:51 GMT -5
No Hoyaclap! He has seen six videos! At least! Six! There are obviously racists in the tea party movement. Here's one: www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/20/AR2010072004429.htmlMost people in the tea party movement are not racist, but do you really want to say that there's no way that one of the hundreds of foaming-at-the-mouth angry protesters didn't say the n-word to John Lewis? I'm with Mike Pence - John Lewis is a tremendously honorable man and if he says it happened, it happened. What that has to do with anything else, I have no idea. Honestly, the racial stuff that the GOP has been throwing against the wall is just confusing to me. The black panther thing in Philly for example. Two "New Black Panthers" show up at a black polling place and make fools of themselves, and apparently there is a grand conspiracy to let them off the hook because we all know the New Black Panthers were the force that got Obama elected. Actually, someone intimidating voters is kind of illegal, and not prosecuting it because it "didn't affect the result" is disturbing. And I still call double-standard on Sherrod. If a white government employee or political employee discussed at a conference how he decided ahead of time "ooh, they're a minority, they're talking down to me, I'll get them", he would be run out of his position on a rail, even if the second part of his speech involved redemption and he had fifty people singing his praises. Unless he was a former Senator from West Virginia.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 21, 2010 15:09:36 GMT -5
No Hoyaclap! He has seen six videos! At least! Six! There are obviously racists in the tea party movement. Here's one: www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/20/AR2010072004429.htmlMost people in the tea party movement are not racist, but do you really want to say that there's no way that one of the hundreds of foaming-at-the-mouth angry protesters didn't say the n-word to John Lewis? I'm with Mike Pence - John Lewis is a tremendously honorable man and if he says it happened, it happened. What that has to do with anything else, I have no idea. Honestly, the racial stuff that the GOP has been throwing against the wall is just confusing to me. The black panther thing in Philly for example. Two "New Black Panthers" show up at a black polling place and make fools of themselves, and apparently there is a grand conspiracy to let them off the hook because we all know the New Black Panthers were the force that got Obama elected. So, how is it that video was clearly able to pick up someone calling Barney Frank a F***** (despicable by whoever did it, not to mention that its just plain dumb - who's going to listen to anything you think if you say such a thing?), in an area with tons of people shouting over each other, but no one has been able do the same with Lewis, despite the fact that there were plenty of people recording his entire walk outside? If nothing else, you'd think someone would want to collect Breitbart's 100K. And if it was that loud in the area, well, then the person saying the word would have had to say it pretty damn loudly for Lewis to hear it. Loud enough for even the most primitive of today's cameras to pick it up. I'm sure John Lewis is an honorable man. Sorry. That's not good enough. Not when something that charged is at issue. As for there being racists in the Tea Party, has anyone ever said that of the thousands, tens of thousands, or however many there are people across the country there are that consider themselves Tea Partiers, that not a single one of them is racist? No, I don't think that claim has been made. But what, exactly, is the point of saying that there may be some racist Tea Partiers? Give me any organization of size in this country and I'll guarantee you that it contains some racists. Here's one: the NAACP. Has the the NAACP issued a resolution condemning the "racist elements" of its own organization? No, the intent was to smear the whole movement. As far as I'm concerned, that's just as irresponsible as what Andrew Breitbart did.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 21, 2010 15:17:23 GMT -5
The Barney Frank incident occurred inside according to reports, while other incidents were outdoors so far as I've been able to tell. Two different places, and, even for quiet press conferences, outlets use recording equipment that you simply don't have on a digital camera.
Who are the "plenty of people" who were recording? Regardless, trying to string together these videos is weak sauce indeed. Accusing John Lewis of calling people racist is also weak sauce.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jul 21, 2010 15:21:21 GMT -5
Here's one: the NAACP. Has the the NAACP issued a resolution condemning the "racist elements" of its own organization? You mean like the statement yesterday issued calling Sherrod's statements shameful?
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Jul 21, 2010 15:32:16 GMT -5
I don't believe John Lewis said "someone called me a bad word and therefore everyone else who feels the way that person does about the health care law is also a bigot." Am I wrong? Did he imply or otherwise state that? He said something that happened to him in a very chaotic situation (as you can see on any of the videos), and given the source (he has never been bombastic or self-promoting in his statements), there is every reason to give him the benefit of the doubt.
You're absolutely right that entire groups should not be tarred by the actions or beliefs of one or a few of their members. And if, as in the case of the Tea Party Express, they take action to distance themselves from the extreme views of some members, they will get the benefit of the doubt from me. Good for them. Racist beliefs should be condemned by right and left alike.
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