SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jul 15, 2010 15:15:02 GMT -5
FINALLY! BP Shares Surge After Cap Stops Oil Flowing into GulfThank goodness! How long will it take to clean up this mess? How much damage has it caused and will it still? What steps are being taken to ensure this never happens again? We'll see. But at least the first step has been accomplished.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 15, 2010 18:32:18 GMT -5
I will refrain from any political commentary and simply say, "Huzzah!"
Hopefully, it will last.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 15, 2010 19:10:42 GMT -5
This represents welcome progress. Hopefully the recovery/relief funds will be distributed efficiently so that the long-term impact of this can be minimized. Fisherman communities have already been affected by substance abuse and mental health issues arising from the stress. Some of these issues have been ignored on a national level in the Katrina aftermath as they relate to folks in New Orleans specifically.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Jul 15, 2010 20:56:59 GMT -5
Let's be careful - as welcome as this news is, it's still not a permanent solution. There's still lots of things that can go wrong. That said, it's a very positive development.
Took the buggers long enough.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jul 16, 2010 6:17:14 GMT -5
Excellent work by all involved. Without the President's firm leadership this spill could have continued unabated for something like 85 days. Thank God he's here for us.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jul 16, 2010 12:54:03 GMT -5
Excellent work by all involved. Without the President's firm leadership this spill could have continued unabated for something like 85 days. Thank God he's here for us. I'm sure the delay was due to all the racists in the Tea Party.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 16, 2010 12:59:33 GMT -5
What was the suggestion/idea that Obama and the US government was supposed to implement that would have shut off the oil flow? As far as I have been able to tell, this was a failure of private entities that were not bailed out by a handout from the US government.
Note also the progress (none) that Bobby Jindal was able to facilitate on the barrier island concept, which was a worthy idea but did not receive much backing in the scientific/engineering community.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jul 16, 2010 13:09:10 GMT -5
What was the suggestion/idea that Obama and the US government was supposed to implement that would have shut off the oil flow? As far as I have been able to tell, this was a failure of private entities that were not bailed out by a handout from the US government. Note also the progress (none) that Bobby Jindal was able to facilitate on the barrier island concept, which was a worthy idea but did not receive much backing in the scientific/engineering community. Didn't the federal government block that idea? I know Jindal was really unhappy with the federal bureaucracy generally getting in the way and not quickly doing a lot of the easy things (like Jones Act waivers) that would have helped. And, I mean, you have to admit that Obama looked really silly assuming full responsibility for stopping the oil spill and then watching the oil flow for another two months.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 16, 2010 13:19:49 GMT -5
I don't think the political fallout was handled well. That is fair. I don't see him taking full responsibility for shutting it down at least from what I see. He took responsibility for making sure everything possible is done to shut it down at least from what I've read. That does not mean that he or the US government would do everything - indeed it might not have been possible based on the various regulations and law for the US government to take action. The question as I see it is - did the US government do all it could facilitate to shut down the spill? At this point, I don't think anyone is arguing or could argue that something else could have been done or, to the extent it was done, it would have led to the oil being shut off faster. It probably also stands to reason that Obama had to involve himself. What was the better thing to do? He chose the lesser of two evils as many Presidents have needed to do. The federal government did not prevent the barrier island concept or a similar plan, which would not have shut down the oil spill. Sand berms were constructed in the Gulf - which people probably did not hear about due to poor media coverage. The berms were largely unable to withstand nature and do not appear to have inspired confidence among engineering experts. As far as I can tell, this was a classic red herring but one that was at least an idea worth exploring, but maybe not to the tune of $360 million. A similar perspective is available here: climateprogress.org/2010/07/15/bobby-jindal-berms-barrier-islands-fail-wash-away/news.discovery.com/earth/barrier-islands-oil-spill.htmlwww.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/07/sand_berms_a_dubious_solution.html
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jul 16, 2010 13:26:27 GMT -5
This represents welcome progress. Hopefully the recovery/relief funds will be distributed efficiently so that the long-term impact of this can be minimized. Fisherman communities have already been affected by substance abuse and mental health issues arising from the stress. Some of these issues have been ignored on a national level in the Katrina aftermath as they relate to folks in New Orleans specifically. The communities have also been drastically affected by the Obama administration curtailing further deep gulf oil exploration, despite court orders telling him not to.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jul 16, 2010 13:42:47 GMT -5
I don't think the political fallout was handled well. That is fair. I don't see him taking full responsibility for shutting it down at least from what I see. He took responsibility for making sure everything possible is done to shut it down at least from what I've read. That does not mean that he or the US government would do everything - indeed it might not have been possible based on the various regulations and law for the US government to take action. The question as I see it is - did the US government do all it could facilitate to shut down the spill? At this point, I don't think anyone is arguing or could argue that something else could have been done or, to the extent it was done, it would have led to the oil being shut off faster. It probably also stands to reason that Obama had to involve himself. What was the better thing to do? He chose the lesser of two evils as many Presidents have needed to do. "I ultimately take responsibility for solving this crisis. I’m the President and the buck stops with me." www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/28/obama-oil-spill-speech-te_n_593863.htmlThat doesn't sound like he was saying it was his job to "make sure everything possible is done to shut it down" but that it was his job to shut it down, at least to me.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 16, 2010 13:50:38 GMT -5
Then we'll have to agree to disagree. Even if we accept your interpretaton, I still think one would have to come up with some idea that would have worked before July 15 to suggest that the current market-based solution fell short of what was promised, particularly when BP likely has more knowledge than the US government as to how to deal with this kind of problem. I don't think anyone is anywhere close to doing that.
The debate is one now where we're criticizing Obama because BP fixed their leak rather than the US government and that pressure on BP to fix it does not fall within a general statement that Obama is responsible for solving the problem? I didn't read Obama's statement as eliminating a private solution and think such a statement would have been foolish.
Could other things have been managed better, no question, particularly on the containment side. I've said as much, but they are sideshows to the issue of the valve/spill source.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 16, 2010 14:13:26 GMT -5
This represents welcome progress. Hopefully the recovery/relief funds will be distributed efficiently so that the long-term impact of this can be minimized. Fisherman communities have already been affected by substance abuse and mental health issues arising from the stress. Some of these issues have been ignored on a national level in the Katrina aftermath as they relate to folks in New Orleans specifically. The communities have also been drastically affected by the Obama administration curtailing further deep gulf oil exploration, despite court orders telling him not to. I don't read the order as prohibiting all curtailment of deepwater drilling. Rig workers are also able to submit claims to Feinberg, which helps. Nobody would argue that those communities are not affected by the spill/moratorium and the need to confirm that drilling is being conducted lawfully and safely.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Jul 16, 2010 15:03:11 GMT -5
I'm just disappointed that by focusing all of his attention on stopping the oil leak yesterday, he dropped the ball and forgot to repel earthquakes from the DC metropolitan region. I do hope another little vacay (number 7 now?) will help him relax enough so that he remembers to make the sun rise tomorrow. It would totally suck to spend such a nice weekend in darkness.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 16, 2010 15:26:06 GMT -5
I'm just disappointed that by focusing all of his attention on stopping the oil leak yesterday, he dropped the ball and forgot to repel earthquakes from the DC metropolitan region. I do hope another little vacay (number 7 now?) will help him relax enough so that he remembers to make the sun rise tomorrow. It would totally suck to spend such a nice weekend in darkness. Now, now. Take it easy. The only reason Obama was playing so much golf during all of this time was that he was preparing for emergency contingency backup plan 34C-11: plugging the leak with golf balls from hyper-accurate chip shots. It's true. Bill Burton told me. ;D
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 16, 2010 16:00:47 GMT -5
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jul 16, 2010 18:37:05 GMT -5
Seems you always use Bush as one point of reference for Obama. Did Bush take too many days off? Second question: are seven vacations by Obama in his first eighteen months in office too many days off? They are independent questions. Third question: have you taken seven vacations in the last year and a half? Fourth question: have I taken seven vacations in the last year and a half? Answer: no, not even close.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 17, 2010 15:27:38 GMT -5
Seems you always use Bush as one point of reference for Obama. Did Bush take too many days off? Second question: are seven vacations by Obama in his first eighteen months in office too many days off? They are independent questions. Third question: have you taken seven vacations in the last year and a half? Fourth question: have I taken seven vacations in the last year and a half? Answer: no, not even close. 1. Yes. Bush took more days off than Obama, like many other recent presidents. It stands to reason that other analysts would compare Obama with his predecessors in these regards. 2. No. To the extent folks did not get outraged at those who took more vacation than Obama, I am not sure why now is the time to start. 3. I am not sure. Off the top of my head, I am counting at least 5, so it is pretty close. To the extent we're counting days of vacation, I have little doubt that I have taken more than Obama, but I also don't have a full-time job that pays (student). The vacation issue is usually one that only fringe partisans bring up to score points. It came up with Bush after 9/11 (as did the golfing issue). Did the Dems a world of good in 2002 and 2004.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jul 29, 2010 10:51:24 GMT -5
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 29, 2010 15:26:30 GMT -5
Some catastrophes get fixed, others get forgotten. Ask the people of Centralia, PA, or what's left of them. A coal mine there has been on fire, unabated, for 48 years. That is no typo. www.centraliaminefire.com/
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