SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,783
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 28, 2005 14:02:00 GMT -5
SF and Khoya- I'd just like to point out that everyone, including me, praised our fans who were in MSG last week for that brutal loss- we were loud, "obnoxious", boisterous, and pretty down afterwards. Yesterday was the first time I criticized our fans this year. That's because they seemed afraid to cheer yesterday. We should put in a bit more effort to cheering when things aren't going so well, infuse some energy into it. That's all. BB is not the issue- I think tired legs and inexperience are starting to show though. Just for the record, the only thing I was criticizing was the poster who claimed they put too muh effort into the team for the team to put so little effort in on the court. That all said, I think people are jumping to conclusions as to why we have lost three in a row. Tired legs? Then why are we so good in the second half? It does jive with the recent outrebounding, but the team looks more tentative than tired. Inexperience? Again, maybe, but as a counterpoint, we've won the close games. Not sure what about these games points specifically to inexperience as a problem. The team is inexperienced, but is that the issue? The system being caught up to? I don't think the system was all that much of an advantage in regards to our opponents. I think the bigger issue is that no one is taking us lightly. I think we need to adjust for level of competition as well. Nova is a fantastic team; ND is very good. The SJU game was awful, but are our results all that surprising? Like I said before -- being outrebounded this badly is unacceptable. And the slow starts are worrisome. But I'm not sure any of the causes listed on this board make all that much sense. (For example, Roy was cited as a reason for the slow starts. Until last night, when we did it despite him being on the bench).
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,783
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 28, 2005 14:08:12 GMT -5
For example, everybody on this board is focusing on the Offense. Here's our Points per Possession for the last 3 games, unadjusted for competition:
GU Season Points per 100 possessions (Adj): 108.8
Nova - 86 Nova Defense: 88.2 SJU - 101 SJU Defense: 93.4 UND - 104 UND Defense: 93.0
Here's the defense:
GU Season PP100P (Adj): 95.9
Nova - 113 Nova Offense: 115.1 SJU - 118 SJU Offense: 99.5 UND - 119 UND Offense: 109.0
When kenpom.com comes back up, I'll add the context, but as a quick look, it seems like the defense is as much or more to blame than the offense for SJU and UND (Nova was an all aroudn debacle). Granted some of that is FT shooting, but still.
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HarbinHoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 543
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Post by HarbinHoya on Feb 28, 2005 14:14:45 GMT -5
I think the only thing that is the "same old board" is people coming on here and telling others that they cant criticize the team for this reason or that. I'll be frank, I have travelled to see a lot of our games this year both in dc, here in NYC at Villanova etc... As fans, I think the hoyas have gotten a fair share of support this year. There has been a good contingent of fans at most games, that have made a lot of noise and we have done lots of things to make this team know we care and are behind them. I was one of the young alumni that attended the game in DC yesterday and I think that for the effort we got on their end, they got the same in return. Intially everyone was rooting hard, but its tough to try and root on a team that is showing no energy, hustle or determination out on the court. Everything was sloppy, heads were down, passes we thrown all over the place and shot after shot was missed. This team for the most part has gotten some good breaks this year that have made us look a lot better then we are. At the same time, we have been in all these games and I am not going to write off the fact that we have been playing so poorly lately as ok, because we start freshman or dont get the system etc. I think those are things that people say to make themselves feel better. The bottom line is that we have been coming out so flat that I have begum to question the resolve of this team. We lose one game and its like the wind has gone out of our sails. No one has the confidence, aside from bowman to take a shot. I mean, am I alone here in saying this? The one thing I saw all day yesterday was wide open shots where our players took a quick look but then passed it on to someone else. We dont move without the ball at all! and that is why we end up having to jack up threes. I dont know also if its just that we dont practice at MCI or what, but we look like we are playing in a totally random venue. We dont hit any open looks and when you have no post presence and cant hit a shot, then when they double team your big men, you have no options. Overall, I still think we can make the tournament. But if our own players dont feel that way and dont come out with the swagger then it is hard to continue to believe. Who is going to step up on this team and say look goddamn it we can still make the dance!! We can make it. We can beat UCONN, we can beat Providence and we can take a few games in the Big East Tourney. These guys just need to wake up and start taking it to people. I would rather see us miss a thousand shots if at least people kept shooting and kept trying to drive and keep giving their all on defense. Its just that I see too many players looking at the other ones and shaking their heads or looking down at the floor when we mess up and that is not the way to energize a team. Our first half play is inexcusable and is something that needs to be addressed as soon as we go two minutes without scoring at any point in the half. Anyway those are my thoughts. THe hoyas should not give up. NIT is not an option when we still have a chance to get into the ncaas. They need to believe that, especially if they want the fans to be behind them.
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Joe Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
You're watching Sports Night on CSC, so stick around.
Posts: 1,236
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Post by Joe Hoya on Feb 28, 2005 17:45:00 GMT -5
I don't buy "tired legs" - we've played like four games in the last three weeks when alot of teams have played six or seven. We had a full week off TWICE during the month of February. If anything we should be fresh.
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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Post by SirSaxa on Feb 28, 2005 17:58:44 GMT -5
I don't buy "tired legs" - we've played like four games in the last three weeks when alot of teams have played six or seven. We had a full week off TWICE during the month of February. If anything we should be fresh. Glad to see that someone else sees it exactly as I do. As for the pressure of a long season and new NCAA expectations, and crunch time of the season against some VERY good teams... that's different. The SJU game though... no excuses. We were awful. Heck, every team has an awful game now and then. and yes, DEFENSE was atrocious. 45 points in the first half! As for the recent lack of scoring by GU in the first halves ... I don't have the answer any more than T3 does. I just hope they work out of it. Remember the big first half lead we had on ILL??? And I think the first PITT game too. What's happened? Finally, we would all have taken 8-6 at this point, if asked back in September. But, when we got to 8-3, we felt we should at least be 9-5 at this point. But c'est la vie.
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SoCalHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
No es bueno
Posts: 1,313
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Post by SoCalHoya on Feb 28, 2005 18:45:20 GMT -5
I do also have that "have they figured us out" feeling. But, since it has been run so many times in the Ivy League, it doesn't seem like others have figured it out. Maybe since we're so new at it, our version can be easily deconstructed. Let's hope that Sunday's letdown and a chance to clinch a spot in the NCAAs will help the fellas adapt, and that JTIII has a few tricks up his sleeve to confuse UConn. Let's go Hoyas! Rebound on Wednesday!
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MEGAFAN
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 649
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Post by MEGAFAN on Feb 28, 2005 19:12:40 GMT -5
SF and Khoya- I'd just like to point out that everyone, including me, praised our fans who were in MSG last week for that brutal loss- we were loud, "obnoxious", boisterous, and pretty down afterwards. Yesterday was the first time I criticized our fans this year. That's because they seemed afraid to cheer yesterday. We should put in a bit more effort to cheering when things aren't going so well, infuse some energy into it. That's all. BB is not the issue- I think tired legs and inexperience are starting to show though. While I don't tend to buy the "tired legs" argument, especially given our schedule of late. I also don't buy the "they've figured us out" argument too much, except that they a) realize we're a tough team and no longer underestimate us, b) realize that Green and Bowman are the two main threats (and so we can no longer surprise them), and c) they thought we were a great outside shooting team, but once that myth was dissolve, they are gambling at forcing us to go outside-in, rather than vice-versa. Obviously, I think that inexperience is a factor. I also think that despite my belief that we have sufficient talent to be competitive, I don't think we have the combination of talent, depth and experience wee need. For instance, even if we didn't get a single recruit, but returned this entire team, I would argue that we would be deeper (slightly) and more experienced next year, and consequently a much scarier team. But I digress, I originally wrote this post to address your other point - the crowd. Now I was at the game as well, and suffered from many of the similar problems others have complained about (people getting irritated by us occasionally standing up or shouting, even with no cursing, as well as too many damn Nova fans), but I really do agree that despite our horrible play, the atmosphere was lacking. For such a big game, and such a large crowd, besides the student section (which wasn't all that great yesterday) and some pockets of fans, such as young alum, and others like myself dispersed throughout the crowd, there was no energy. I understand that a place will generally only get loud if there are some exciting plays and or a close, competitive game, but really, these guys needed a lift at certain points, and the crowd just didn't come through. I agree wholeheartedly that the MSG crowd was superior to the MCI crowd (almost directly, with much less fans), but I don't know if this is the norm. My understanding is that the ND @ Georgetown game had one of the best atmospheres ever, throughout the game, not only at the end. I have an IDEA! YB - I think you'll like it, as well as the current students and others. It is probably unrealistic at this point for us to move students to the sides, and in a weird way, I love the student seats being behind the basket. However, I think that we must do something about getting all of the other fans united and together. First, I think we can divide fans into three broad categories: A) Guys who will be loud, no mattter what, stand up and shout, even if it bothers the people around them, and even if the team is losing terribly, and even if they are not at home. As long as these guys aren't blatantly disrespectful, they are great. (I put myself in this category, but even when drinking, if I have the misfortune of sitting next to a family or little kids, I will censor myself, such as when JG blocked a shot yesterday, I said "Get that out of Jeff Green's kitchen!" rather than "Get that sh#t out of Jeff Green's kitchen!" B) Guys who will be loud, but not necessarily stand up much, and who generally need to feed off others' energy. They could be converted to type A with either a lot of alcohol, a really exciting game, or if there are enough A's around them to get them over the hump. C) Everyone else. Occasionally there will be a really non-vocal die-hard who just never shows his emotion, but is desperately cheering on their team. This is a rarity, though, and normally C fans range from casual fans who hardly know the team, to season ticket holders, but with perhaps a wife and kids, and not enough time to make it to all the games, and who perceive the event more as a family outing, but not too much more. Of course, there are a variety of fans in between, but my plan is to try to get all of the A-types, and many of the B's, sitting near each other, and either near the student section, or near the Young alums. Now this does mean that they are giving up the really prime seats in the middle, but I think it's a worthy exchange. For instance, imagine if the Young alums were joined by the A-type fans. And imagine if this curved around from behind the bucket, to both sides, both behind the bench, and across from the bench. In many ways, seats directy across from the bench and behind it, have the best way of injecting energy into the players. I have had the fortune to sit with Gammo, across from the Hoya bench, and when he really shout, you can get some major positive energy right into players. Literally, you can affect the game. Of course, you don't want negative comments, but rather stuff that instills confidence in players and makes them kick it up a notch. Sorry to ramble on, but this would mean that the student section took care of one end-zone, and then a combination of young alums and diehards, occupied the whole area surroudning the other end-zone, near the Hoya bench. Also, just like I don't mind if someone is barking near my ear and standing up in front of me (as long as their Hoya fans), they won't mind me doing the same, and in fact, we could convert perhaps 1/4 of the non-student-section crowd into standing, cheering, die-hards. If we then recruit some B-types, they will become A-types, and what not. (Now that I have written this, I realize my course categorization of fans was outlined more articulately in another thesis - I can't remember who started this- but perhaps we can work together to add my layer of geostrategic seating to your in-depth analysis of Hoya endoctrination) LET'S GO HOYAS!!! BEAT UCONN!
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