Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
123 Fireballs!
Posts: 10,355
|
Post by Boz on May 14, 2010 10:27:28 GMT -5
So, a parent takes his or her child in to see their doctor. The doctor performs a number of tests, including BMI.
Indications point to the child being obese.
As this point, I am wondering:
- What information can the government, by monitoring this data, give the parent that they can't get right there in the exam room from the doctor?
As for the military, well one of the things they could do is open entry into the military for those who are currently ineligible. I can't think of too many things that would help reduce obesity than the young adults volunteering for an extended military fitness and diet regimen.
This would involve more military spending, and probably a special program for those who are deemed to fall into this category, but it seems like a pretty good solution to me. A lot more palatable than some of the other options under consideration.
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on May 14, 2010 10:47:01 GMT -5
Hey if some private entity wants to take up the cause and do it so the government doesn't have to fine. Someone has to do something about it and the government seems the most able and willing to. That's why they need to do something about it. It just seems to me the government is the only entity who has the resources to do anything about it and has incentive to do anything about it. If jamie Oliver has enough resources and wants to do the job himself i'd be fine with that.
Whatever we're doing right now isn't working. Whether it's doctor's aren't telling kids their obese, that they're not sufficiently expressing how big of a problem it is, or whether parent's are ignoring doctor's advice, I don't know. And what about the people who don't go in for regular check ups. Also a doctor can tell them they have a problem, but they can't make it easier for them to buy healthy options. With this data the government can know where to target programs to help people. I'd love to see the government put out adds target at kids to eat healthy the way they do about kids getting out an exercise recently.
|
|
Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
123 Fireballs!
Posts: 10,355
|
Post by Boz on May 14, 2010 11:10:21 GMT -5
Here is my problem. I consider this a classic fallacy:
"We have a problem. Someone has to do something."
"This is something."
"This is a good thing."
If the government wants to promote an advertising campaign, well I think they'll waste a truckload of money in service of that program, as they always do, but what the hell, go ahead. It's not nearly as much as you'll waste in other things.
But the government can't make people stop ignoring their doctors. And the government can't -- except in extreme circumstances -- force people to GO to their doctors.
What sort of targeted program will the government initiate if it finds a high preponderance of obese children or adults in, say, Racine, Wisconsin? I don't want to hear "something."
As for making healthy food less expensive, well that brings us all the way back around to farm policy, doesn't it? You get a solution for that that the government will embrace, let everyone know, because we could use it.
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on May 14, 2010 11:21:11 GMT -5
Fine I think the government needs to do something constructive about the obesity epidemic and then I think that would be a good thing. That's all I'm saying. I'm not advocating for this particular plan. I'm just advocating that someone needs to do something that will fix this problem because it's not going to fix itself. I don't know what that something is myself, but I know it needs to be done. Is that satisfactory?
|
|
Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
123 Fireballs!
Posts: 10,355
|
Post by Boz on May 14, 2010 12:09:18 GMT -5
Also, I think it's worth pointing out one of the likely results of collecting BMI data across the country is that we'll find that every single high school football team in the country is populated almost exclusively by obese boys. www.dietandfitnesstoday.com/bmiathletes.php
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on May 14, 2010 12:48:14 GMT -5
yeah i'm actually not a fan of the BMI but that's a different discussion. Although I think that argument is slightly different with regards to football some football positions and players are obese and unhealthy and I think football promotes an unhealthy lifestyle for those players. But yeah BMI definitely has it's flaws and does not measure athletes well. But for the general population it's a fine metric as long as it's not used as your only data point ever.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on May 14, 2010 12:53:20 GMT -5
|
|
EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
|
Post by EasyEd on May 14, 2010 13:43:25 GMT -5
"I think mandatory monitoring of BMI doesn't mean the government is regulating healthy living. It's not taking the place of the parent, it's just giving parents additional information."
Are you really that naive?
|
|
nodak89
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Roy Roy Royyyyy!!!
Posts: 1,881
|
Post by nodak89 on May 14, 2010 14:18:50 GMT -5
So, a parent takes his or her child in to see their doctor. The doctor performs a number of tests, including BMI. Indications point to the child being obese. As this point, I am wondering: - What information can the government, by monitoring this data, give the parent that they can't get right there in the exam room from the doctor? As for the military, well one of the things they could do is open entry into the military for those who are currently ineligible. I can't think of too many things that would help reduce obesity than the young adults volunteering for an extended military fitness and diet regimen. This would involve more military spending, and probably a special program for those who are deemed to fall into this category, but it seems like a pretty good solution to me. A lot more palatable than some of the other options under consideration. Here's the deal. There are multiple factors contributioning to the obestity epidemic - 1. Genetics and metabolism (not really a modificable risk factor)
There is a 3x increased risk for obesity in a child with one obese parent and a 13x increased risk with two obese parents
- 2. Behavioral
It is very difficult to change peoples habits and default modes
- 3. Culture
Fast food, massive portion sizes, overscheduling, fewer meals eaten at home and as a family are major contributors
- 4. Poverty
Private sector, faith-based organizations and the government IMHO have a role
- 5. The Built Environment
Government definitely has a major role in how city planning is done. Making sure roads are accessible to pedestrians and bikes is huge. Even in Fargo, it isn't always same from a criminal element or traffic safety standpoint to have your kids walk or bike to school. Safe places for kids to play (parks, playgrounds, schools, community centers, etc) can also be influenced by government
- 6. Reimbursement for obesity-related health care
Visits with a nutritionist, screening labs for diabetes and cholesterol problems, and even counseling visits with the pediatrician are not paid by most payors (private or public)
BMI measurement as a way to track the effectiveness of interventions is essential. It's just another biological marker and getting the BMI percentiles changing toward a lower risk status is key. But how are we gonna know what works if we don't measure the outcome? I suppose we could wait 20 yrs to see if the incidence of diabetes, hypertension, heart disease go down, but I'd rather see BMI trends over 6-30 months. I am glad to see the FLOTUS get in the fight. We on the front lines need some help.
|
|
|
Post by strummer8526 on May 14, 2010 14:30:49 GMT -5
|
|
Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
123 Fireballs!
Posts: 10,355
|
Post by Boz on May 14, 2010 14:38:46 GMT -5
Awww. I was hoping that one would be the "Get Momma her pryin' bar!" clip. Or Homer in a mummu. ;D
|
|
jgalt
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,380
|
Post by jgalt on May 14, 2010 14:44:43 GMT -5
yeah i'm actually not a fan of the BMI but that's a different discussion. So guess we agree on on thing ;D But the problem, and this isnt a personal attack on you hsb, i have is the idea that "WE have a problem, WE have to do something about it." Well I dont have a problem, im not obese, and i do do something about it, i eat well (and that doesnt necessarily mean i eat all these expensive organic foods, sometimes i just eat less). WE dont have to do things, THEY (the obese) have to do things. This country is predicated on the idea that we are all created equaly, meaning we all have an equal capacity for intellect so the idea the these people dont understand how to not be obese is on them not on me. The idea that WE have to do something because it raised health care costs is bogus. If I feel my health care costs are too high and its because other people are obese then I can get a different insurer, if none are lower, well so be it, thats capitalism. But even then, the NIH and CDC who did the big study that led to the idea that being fat makes you die earlier and health care costs to go up as a result, did a new study saying the number was actually more like 25k: www.consumerfreedom.com/pressRelease_detail.cfm/r/99-new-jama-study-challenges-cdcs-400000-obesity-deaths-figureThe second paragraph is the interesting part. All I am advocating is that we start pushing people to take responsibility for their own lives. The government (and voting public) loves to hear things about new programs, and it has created the idea that when there is a problem other people have tell us how to solve it. That is not a very sustainable practice (to borrow a phrase) And if they govt wants to really do something about it, then why dont they start blaming themselves for all the crappy food they feed kids in school. For most poor kids in this country that is where they get alot of their calories.
|
|
kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 9,934
|
Post by kchoya on May 14, 2010 14:48:56 GMT -5
So, a parent takes his or her child in to see their doctor. The doctor performs a number of tests, including BMI. Indications point to the child being obese. As this point, I am wondering: - What information can the government, by monitoring this data, give the parent that they can't get right there in the exam room from the doctor? As for the military, well one of the things they could do is open entry into the military for those who are currently ineligible. I can't think of too many things that would help reduce obesity than the young adults volunteering for an extended military fitness and diet regimen. This would involve more military spending, and probably a special program for those who are deemed to fall into this category, but it seems like a pretty good solution to me. A lot more palatable than some of the other options under consideration. Here's the deal. There are multiple factors contributioning to the obestity epidemic - 1. Genetics and metabolism (not really a modificable risk factor)
There is a 3x increased risk for obesity in a child with one obese parent and a 13x increased risk with two obese parents
- 2. Behavioral
It is very difficult to change peoples habits and default modes
- 3. Culture
Fast food, massive portion sizes, overscheduling, fewer meals eaten at home and as a family are major contributors
- 4. Poverty
Private sector, faith-based organizations and the government IMHO have a role
- 5. The Built Environment
Government definitely has a major role in how city planning is done. Making sure roads are accessible to pedestrians and bikes is huge. Even in Fargo, it isn't always same from a criminal element or traffic safety standpoint to have your kids walk or bike to school. Safe places for kids to play (parks, playgrounds, schools, community centers, etc) can also be influenced by government
- 6. Reimbursement for obesity-related health care
Visits with a nutritionist, screening labs for diabetes and cholesterol problems, and even counseling visits with the pediatrician are not paid by most payors (private or public)
BMI measurement as a way to track the effectiveness of interventions is essential. It's just another biological marker and getting the BMI percentiles changing toward a lower risk status is key. But how are we gonna know what works if we don't measure the outcome? I suppose we could wait 20 yrs to see if the incidence of diabetes, hypertension, heart disease go down, but I'd rather see BMI trends over 6-30 months. I am glad to see the FLOTUS get in the fight. We on the front lines need some help. Geez. You sound like a doctor.
|
|
Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
123 Fireballs!
Posts: 10,355
|
Post by Boz on May 14, 2010 14:56:50 GMT -5
Don't get me started on FLOTUS. It's too close to the weekend and I'm in too good a mood to discuss her hypocrisy.
From a certain point of view (not mine), I guess it doesn't matter when you have your Come To Jesus moment, as long as you have it. I just happen to find it a bit ironic that she had hers after she spent some years peddling cheese sauces and maple syrup.
But irregardless, if FLOTUS wants to provide education on healthy eating, I wish her the best of luck.
|
|
jgalt
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,380
|
Post by jgalt on May 14, 2010 16:47:11 GMT -5
She also needs to stand up straight (and apologies if she has scoliosis or something)
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on May 14, 2010 17:18:24 GMT -5
I'm young and fairly naive, but i guess i just feel like we ought to help other people out. If we can prevent people from killing themselves by informing them better and giving them more options I see that as a good thing. I don't believe that just because I'm not obese that it's not my problem.
I think the labeling of food with nutritional information needs to be changed. 1) It's pretty hard for the average person to interpret the nutritional information on labeled items 2) It's pretty hard for the average person to count their calories for every thing they eat. The average person doesn't want to sit there and count calories or what % of their daily salt this pretzel will be. People would prefer things spelled out for them.
If there are warning labels on cigarettes warning how dangerous they are perhaps there needs to be a warning on a box of twinkies or on McDonald's food. I think people would eat healthier if things that were really unhealthy had warning labels that said like warning this product contains an unhealthy amount of fat/cholesterol/salt/calories/ whatever. And likewise label products that are especially health. Spell out the choices more clearly for people and I think that will make a difference. Having a non biased entity determine who gets what label sounds like the job for a government organization to me. People need to be educated on what unhealthy eating can lead to. Just saying something is unhealthy doesn't properly scare people enough.
And yes I do think there needs to be revision of farm policy( if that's what it would take) and make it so that healthier things are cheaper and unhealthy things are more expensive. And there needs to be an effort to get healthier options into the inner city and areas that don't have access to them.
Another thing that needs to change is the food pyramid. They actual did an overhaul of it that's slightly better than the traditional one, but it's still not an accurate representation of truly healthy eating habits. Just for example the servings of fruits and vegetables recommended are actually the minimum that nutritionists recommend rather than the average. There's a lot of misinformation out there. I think some good education can go along way.
I want to make it clear I am not in favor of mandating all content. Certain foods should not be banned. Eating junk food and fatty foods are fine in moderation. But people need to be educated about making healthy eating choices and healthy life choices.
|
|
EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
|
Post by EasyEd on May 14, 2010 19:20:14 GMT -5
We have an epidemic of obesity because the government tells us so. It's a crisis just like all the other crises paraded before us, all leading to the federal government exercising more control over our lives, all resulting in new taxes to encourage behavior favored by the feds. Health care was a crisis. The financial market is a crisis. Climate change is a crisis. The oil spill is a crisis. H1N1 was a crisis. The Arizona law is a crisis. And the list goes on. And what are we supposed to do? Have faith the government will offer a solution to the crisis and, later on, when the situation is unchanged we never go back and undo what the feds have done.
My other beef is I can offer other solutions to the obesity crisis. My belief is we are becoming larger because all of us spend too many hours at our computers, on our phones, on our other hi-tech devices. So my solution is: let's have people record once a week how many hours they, their grandparents and their children have logged on these devices and send that information to the federal government. And let's start an advertisement campaign informing the populace on the crisis resulting from our tech devices. And, to discourage all of us from spending so much time on HoyaTalk or texting our significant others, let's impose an hourly tax on their use. And, of course, this - new taxes - and control are the main purposes of this crisis. And how else are we going to control Ambassador? Tax the crap out of him.
All the while we do nothing about the real crises such as the pending fiscal collapse of our country.
|
|
TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
|
Post by TBird41 on May 14, 2010 19:27:58 GMT -5
We have an epidemic of obesity because the government tells us so. It's a crisis just like all the other crises paraded before us, all leading to the federal government exercising more control over our lives, all resulting in new taxes to encourage behavior favored by the feds. Health care was a crisis. The financial market is a crisis. Climate change is a crisis. The oil spill is a crisis. H1N1 was a crisis. The Arizona law is a crisis. And the list goes on. And what are we supposed to do? Have faith the government will offer a solution to the crisis and, later on, when the situation is unchanged we never go back and undo what the feds have done. My other beef is I can offer other solutions to the obesity crisis. My belief is we are becoming larger because all of us spend too many hours at our computers, on our phones, on our other hi-tech devices. So my solution is: let's have people record once a week how many hours they, their grandparents and their children have logged on these devices and send that information to the federal government. And let's start an advertisement campaign informing the populace on the crisis resulting from our tech devices. And, to discourage all of us from spending so much time on HoyaTalk or texting our significant others, let's impose an hourly tax on their use. And, of course, this - new taxes - and control are the main purposes of this crisis. And how else are we going to control Ambassador? Tax the crap out of him. All the while we do nothing about the real crises such as the pending fiscal collapse of our country. Well, taxing the crap out of people might help w/ the pending fiscal collapse
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on May 14, 2010 19:46:47 GMT -5
No we have a obesity epidemic because all the doctors keep telling us so. I'm in graduate school at Georgetown where I take classes with the medical students. In about half the classes I've been in there's been a mention by practicing doctors of the epidemic of obesity and how it's a big problem for them and for healthcare. I'm going to take the practicing physicians word for it. I'm going to take Dr. Nodak up above's word on it. It's not a government conspiracy. We need people to eat less, eat healthier and exercise more.
|
|
Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
123 Fireballs!
Posts: 10,355
|
Post by Boz on May 15, 2010 8:57:19 GMT -5
We need people to eat less, eat healthier and exercise more. All things the government should have its hand in, of course.
|
|