DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Apr 1, 2010 8:44:31 GMT -5
March Mediocrity™
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Apr 1, 2010 9:24:53 GMT -5
Someone - I think an SI article, but I'm not sure - made the comment a few years ago that there's already a bigger NCAA tournament that almost everyone makes.
It's called conference tournaments. With the exception of seven Ivy schools, almost everybody else has one last chance, even if they finished the season without a win, to catch lightning in a bottle and keep a winning streak that doesn't end until NCAA championship night.
And you know what stands to lose with this? Conference tournaments. Fewer, if any, Mississippi State-style "win and you're in, lose and you're out" tourney finals - if a team needs in a power conference needs to win the final to get their berth, then they were really, really bad before. With yet another tourney game, the incentive to win a tournament title becomes much less - maybe not if you make the final and are playing for hardware, but are you really going to kill yourself if you're down ten at the half in the quarters?
The power conferences may stand to gain more teams, but this will kill the golden egg of the conference tournaments that they own all by themselves and don't have to share with Texas A&M-Corpus Christi.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Apr 1, 2010 12:04:27 GMT -5
Several of you are making some good points, but I think you can look at it a different way. The expanded field will lessen the importance of the conference tournaments. But that really depends on how you look at it. If the "importance" comes from the seeding and selections that result from the outcomes of the conference tourneys then there's no way around a lessening due to the expanded NCAA field. But if the importance comes from the event itself, then there doesn't need to be any correlation to the big dance. In other words, while the improved seeding resulting from winning the conference tourney is nice, the real "prize" from the achievement is being the conference Champion. You can't take that away.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Apr 1, 2010 12:21:12 GMT -5
Several of you are making some good points, but I think you can look at it a different way. The expanded field will lessen the importance of the conference tournaments. But that really depends on how you look at it. If the "importance" comes from the seeding and selections that result from the outcomes of the conference tourneys then there's no way around a lessening due to the expanded NCAA field. But if the importance comes from the event itself, then there doesn't need to be any correlation to the big dance. In other words, while the improved seeding resulting from winning the conference tourney is nice, the real "prize" from the achievement is being the conference Champion. You can't take that away. Note the above comment - "maybe not if you make the final and are playing for hardware". There is less of an incentive to play hard when faced with adverisity if you know you're going to make the tournament. Coaches have more of an incentive, therefore, to do tourney prep. Fans of teams on the bubble have less incentive to attend the early games. III's first year, I attended the Big East tournament, knowing full well that, if Georgetown lost to Seton Hall in the first round or UConn in the quarters, that it was the NIT for the team. That's a powerful motivator. If the tournament is expanded, few, if any in teams in the Big East will be on the bubble - they will either be in the tournament or have a losing record and be out unless they win the tourney. No "make the final and you're in".
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Apr 1, 2010 18:35:09 GMT -5
Wow. It's crazy to think that something with so much significance will change so drastically over night, but it sounds like it is really going to happen.
It will place a ton more emphasis on the tourney itself, but it will really kill the cottage industry around bubble talk.
And, I agree, you could basically pencil in 12 big east teams every year. Plus, seeding has become so imperfect anyway, imagine it now. It just wont matter at all. I dont even know how Id regard our team down the stretch. I guess you'd hope we could capture a top 32 slot? That just seems lame.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Apr 1, 2010 20:54:34 GMT -5
Wait until next year, when Duke Vitale rants about how a 16-14 Georgia team was excluded in favor of a 16-15 Washington State team or a 22-8 Cal State Fullerton team.
This stinks. There is no positive side.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Apr 1, 2010 23:08:09 GMT -5
Wait until next year, when Duke Vitale rants about how a 16-14 Georgia team was excluded in favor of a 16-15 Washington State team or a 22-8 Cal State Fullerton team. This stinks. There is no positive side. The sad part is that in reality all those teams would make it (well at least Georgia and Wash St) because now if you have a winning record and are in a power conference you make the NIT. Any way, i hate Fienstein as much as anyone on this board, but he got to take his fight against 96 teams to the NCAA today and he brought up the point i have been making for a while- the hypocrisy of the NCAA regarding student athletes missing school especially regarding CFB going to a play off. here is the link: voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/04/feinstein_vs_the_ncaa.html#moreYou really just have to read the the back and fourth q/a part. It reveals just how stupid the NCAA is and how they will go so far as to avoid saying "we are doing this for the money" even though everyone knows that is why. My opinion is best summed up by a comment on that post: They'll continue to deny that it isnt about the money so they can believe they have "integrity." But there IS integrity in doing something for the money. If they just stopped lying about it i would be much less bothered by expanding to 96 teams and maintaining a stupid BCS
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Apr 2, 2010 10:12:54 GMT -5
Wait until next year, when Duke Vitale rants about how a 16-14 Georgia team was excluded in favor of a 16-15 Washington State team or a 22-8 Cal State Fullerton team. This stinks. There is no positive side. The sad part is that in reality all those teams would make it (well at least Georgia and Wash St) because now if you have a winning record and are in a power conference you make the NIT. Any way, i hate Fienstein as much as anyone on this board, but he got to take his fight against 96 teams to the NCAA today and he brought up the point i have been making for a while- the hypocrisy of the NCAA regarding student athletes missing school especially regarding CFB going to a play off. here is the link: voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/04/feinstein_vs_the_ncaa.html#moreYou really just have to read the the back and fourth q/a part. It reveals just how stupid the NCAA is and how they will go so far as to avoid saying "we are doing this for the money" even though everyone knows that is why. My opinion is best summed up by a comment on that post: They'll continue to deny that it isnt about the money so they can believe they have "integrity." But there IS integrity in doing something for the money. If they just stopped lying about it i would be much less bothered by expanding to 96 teams and maintaining a stupid BCS To be fair, is it really the NCAA making the argument about missing class time in reference to the football playoff? I think it's the school presidents since the NCAA isn't involved in a FBS playoff. I think that one of the biggest things that stinks about the new 96-team format is how it's going to screw the fans. It's one thing to make arrangements to travel to catch a Thursday or Friday game. But if you then follow that up with a game the next Tuesday or Wednesday, and then on to a new site two days later, how can you follow the team? Especially if they do the first two rounds at one site, the third round at another site, and the sweet sixteen/elite eight at a third site?
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mchoya
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Post by mchoya on Apr 2, 2010 13:41:54 GMT -5
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Apr 2, 2010 13:53:19 GMT -5
My main complaint with the 96 team format is that it will make traditional paper brackets obsolete. In addition to the problem with fitting that large of a bracket on one piece of paper, if they go with a Tuesday-Wedenesday for the first round, then there will be almost no time to get the brackets out and then get them turned back in, in time for the first round games. It's tough already and that's with 3 days to do it. As it is now, I print up the brackets Sunday night as soon as they are available and get a handful of them out Sunday night, but mostly I take them to our watering hole of choice Monday night, along with taking some to a couple of managers of surrounding restaurants. Then I have to have them turned back in by Wednesday evening. On Thursday morning I go print up a copy of each entry and make a "mini-master" to pass out to everyone and then I have to drop off a copy of the entries with the bartender so that a neutral party has a copy of all entries before the tourney starts. It's a pretty good amount of running around and I just know that if we tried to squeeze all of that into one day, we wouldn't have very many entries. How dare the NCAA try to steal away one of my primary sources of fun in the spring!?!??!!
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Post by williambraskyiii on Apr 2, 2010 13:56:43 GMT -5
As it is now, I print up the brackets Sunday night as soon as they are available and get a handful of them out Sunday night, but mostly I take them to our watering hole of choice Monday night, along with taking some to a couple of managers of surrounding restaurants. Then I have to have them turned back in by Wednesday evening. On Thursday morning I go print up a copy of each entry and make a "mini-master" to pass out to everyone and then I have to drop off a copy of the entries with the bartender so that a neutral party has a copy of all entries before the tourney starts. Worthless, Rambling HiFi Story No. 8,769
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Apr 2, 2010 14:51:16 GMT -5
As it is now, I print up the brackets Sunday night as soon as they are available and get a handful of them out Sunday night, but mostly I take them to our watering hole of choice Monday night, along with taking some to a couple of managers of surrounding restaurants. Then I have to have them turned back in by Wednesday evening. On Thursday morning I go print up a copy of each entry and make a "mini-master" to pass out to everyone and then I have to drop off a copy of the entries with the bartender so that a neutral party has a copy of all entries before the tourney starts. Worthless, Rambling HiFi Story No. 8,769 Forget about the "me" angle for a minute. Don't you understand the potential impact on one of the things that so many of us cherish -- doing brackets for March Madness. Sure, I could have just left it with "having trouble getting the brackets out and back in in time," but then some might say "well how long does it take to fill out a bracket anyway?" The illustration was to point out that it isn't simply a matter of writing a few team's names down on a piece of paper. But why I expect any kind of sensible reasoning from you, I have no idea.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 2, 2010 15:21:36 GMT -5
People will find a way to fill out a bracket.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2010 16:00:39 GMT -5
How dare the NCAA try to steal away one of my primary sources of fun in the spring!?!??!! There will still be plenty of cows to tip in Gainesville.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Apr 2, 2010 16:03:09 GMT -5
Cam, you match your avatar very well. Incidentally, Gainesville is certainly no major metropolis, but it isn't a farming community either. I believe you are confusing it with other parts of the state.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Apr 2, 2010 19:00:47 GMT -5
Cam, you match your avatar very well. Incidentally, Gainesville is certainly no major metropolis, but it isn't a farming community either. I believe you are confusing it with other parts of the state. Oh, like West Gainesville? Sorry couldnt resist
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Apr 2, 2010 22:50:52 GMT -5
Cam, you match your avatar very well. Incidentally, Gainesville is certainly no major metropolis, but it isn't a farming community either. I believe you are confusing it with other parts of the state. Oh, like West Gainesville? Sorry couldnt resist Ironically, you are sort of right. The main travel is obviously north-south, with the Interstate 75 going right through town. But just a few miles south of G'ville is Paynes Prarie which is a rather large protected wildlife district with virtually no development allowed. Towards the east, there are numerous other highly regulated areas -- wildlife management, water management and the sort. To the west, however was historically undeveloped land, but for little reason other than a lack of demand at the time. Now, the "money" is moving west ... so rural "farming" communities and similar small towns like Archer, Newberry, Trenton etc... are the natural target for the "evil" urban sprawl. North you ask ... can't go there ... the earlier money jumped out there a generation ago and attraction now lags severely behind the government intrusiveness.
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