eb59
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 152
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Post by eb59 on Nov 12, 2009 0:05:22 GMT -5
According to the site, the The Club President is Jim Lenihan, jklenihan@gmail.com.
Also, it suggests that if you are interested in helping the football program through the Gridiron Club, please contact Paul Muite in Hoyas Unlimited at 202-687-0487, or via e-mail at pm275@georgetown.edu.
Jim or Paul - Do you ever read this board?
Can we have a physical meeting of the GIRON CLUB? Can we talk to the coaching staff directly? What is the deal, is this a purely fundraising driven organization or does it attempt in anyway to be involved in the direction of the program?
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Post by hoyaparents on Nov 12, 2009 9:52:24 GMT -5
eb59, The Gridiron Club is nothing more that an extension of Hoyas Unlimted and the Athletic Department, there is no independence whatsoever.
Leadership is hand picked by Hoyas Unlimited and coaches.
I have been around universities for a long time in various capacities including a Board member. University as very territorial, they want to control everything, that is the nature of the beast.
As stated in a previous post, we are exploring forming a new organization independent of the Gridiron Club, not for the purpose of being adversarial, but to act in the overall best interest of the football program and the football alumni in terms of fund raising and, with one voice, providing input as to direction of the goals of the football program.
We have been waiting for the new AD to be announced. I had asked Lenihan to arrange a meeting with Porterfield about a month ago, but nothing ever came of that.
I will keep you all posted as to progress, if any.
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Post by jimlenihan on Nov 12, 2009 10:25:45 GMT -5
"eb59" I do read the boards.
We are developing many programs that are long overdue like a mentorship program, monthly guest speaker series, and we are developing a real board of directors made up by some of our finest alums to build the culture you have been waiting for.
I welcome everyone's involvement. Please either email me at jklenihan@gmail.com or talk to me at one of the next two tailgates.
Jim
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Post by nyalum on Nov 12, 2009 10:58:39 GMT -5
Facilitiies are not the problem , they are simply an excuse ....lets face it , kids wanna go to GU ..Coaching is the problem , thats obvious ..horrendous coaching , stupid recruiting ..(7 qbs and they rotate in and out , its ridiculous) ...Coaching staff needs to be replaced ASAP ...anyone at all would be an improvement and im sure people would want the job ..its very difficult to be a supporter of the se coaches, they cant coach and they dont bother to do even the little things ....the scoreboard is broken , we have to listen to our opponents broadcast of the games ..our website stinks ...these are all the little things that are not being monitored ...what else do these people do ... I apologize and its sad that these things need to be said , I do wish we were better but we are not ....and when our opponents radio staff is laughing at our play calling NOT OUR ATHLETES then something needs to be done ...i listen to a fair amount of games and our decision making (play calling) is being laughed at on a weekly basis ....enough is enough ...
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Post by hoyaparents on Nov 12, 2009 12:04:22 GMT -5
nyalum, one of the ideas being discussed for the new football alumni organization would be to take over the broadcasting rights to Hoya football games.
Earlier in my carrer, 70 and 80's, I owned radio stations in upstate New York, New Jersey, Arizona, Texas and New Mexico. During those 20 years, we orginiated hundreds of radio broadcasts of high school football and basketball games. In addition, our Texas station had the radio rights to the Sun Bowl in El Paso, and our upstate New York station originated Army football from West Point.
Twenty years ago it was a technology challenge, ordering dedicated telephone lines for remotes, today the technology make it much easier.
A well produced pre-game, play by play and post game broadcast for Hoya fans, alums and parents would greatly enhance the football program and its image. and would not be expensive undertaking.
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Post by 98hoya on Nov 12, 2009 12:41:40 GMT -5
Facilitiies are not the problem , they are simply an excuse ....lets face it , kids wanna go to GU ..Coaching is the problem , thats obvious ..horrendous coaching , stupid recruiting ..(7 qbs and they rotate in and out , its ridiculous) ...Coaching staff needs to be replaced ASAP ...anyone at all would be an improvement and im sure people would want the job ..its very difficult to be a supporter of the se coaches, they cant coach and they dont bother to do even the little things ....the scoreboard is broken , we have to listen to our opponents broadcast of the games ..our website stinks ...these are all the little things that are not being monitored ...what else do these people do ... I apologize and its sad that these things need to be said , I do wish we were better but we are not ....and when our opponents radio staff is laughing at our play calling NOT OUR ATHLETES then something needs to be done ...i listen to a fair amount of games and our decision making (play calling) is being laughed at on a weekly basis ....enough is enough ... Reading your post makes me wonder: are you related to lichoya?
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Post by redskins12820 on Nov 12, 2009 22:56:52 GMT -5
Very easy concepts here. Winning solves all subsequent problems (it will lead to increased funding). Good Coach leads to winning. Good coach requires coaching change and a minimal money investment (relative to other potential costs). Save bigger investments (e.g. constructing/adding new facilities) until the team is actually successful and there is a fan base outside of parents and the 5 people in this thread. A good coach can turn this team into a good one in a couple years. A nicer stadium will not.
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Post by hoyaparents on Nov 13, 2009 7:45:18 GMT -5
[Edited. Please keep budget figures offline. E-mail to discuss.--Admin]
This is the gap we face. You're right, building a new MSF is not the problem. If we want to be competitive in the PL, its all about financial resources.
Georgetown has the highest tuition in the PL, the least amount of aid, and the worst facilities. It's the perfect storm.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,848
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Post by thebin on Nov 13, 2009 9:06:50 GMT -5
eb59....I've been spouting almost exactly your reasons 1.1-1.3 since the Clinton administration. I've been beaten down by the lack of real stadium progress. With the exception of a brief respite around the time of the Brown game when we debuted our new...umm....fence for a stadium that would one day come....I lie before you a broken man by the promise of a stadium that was once vaguely mentioned to me directly by Coach Benson on my recruiting trip in 1995. While I still believe in the "if you build it, they will come" school of thought, my concerns now are that it's fanciful to think the school might put real money into a stadium when we can't beat Marist.
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Post by jimlenihan on Nov 13, 2009 9:24:00 GMT -5
Anyone who would like to talk about the numbers and how we plan on getting to an even playing level please email me and we can set up a time to talk.
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Post by 98hoya on Nov 13, 2009 12:23:03 GMT -5
Very easy concepts here. Winning solves all subsequent problems (it will lead to increased funding). Good Coach leads to winning. Good coach requires coaching change and a minimal money investment (relative to other potential costs). Save bigger investments (e.g. constructing/adding new facilities) until the team is actually successful and there is a fan base outside of parents and the 5 people in this thread. A good coach can turn this team into a good one in a couple years. A nicer stadium will not. If winning solves all subsequent problems, then how do you explain the enormous success of the team in terms of wins from about 97 to 2000 and the same problems (no fans, no stadium, no football culture) existed then, just as they do now? Why didn't winning solve all problems then?
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Post by hoyahopeful on Nov 13, 2009 15:21:55 GMT -5
I'm not familiar with that time period, but I would guess that the attitude toward football was far more positive then than now. And I would say that the success during those years is what helped get the improvements that are now in place. That would include the field turf and brick work. But I suspect that those years included victories over teams that nobody knew or cared about. Now with Georgetown in the PL and playing a lot of schools which were likely being considered by the students at Georgetown when they applied to colleges, I think the dynamic is very different. A win over Yale, Brown, Penn, Lehigh, Lafayette would mean a lot more than a win over Robert Morris (no offense intended to Robert Morris).
The problem has been that the success at the lower level of I-AA gave everyone hope for success in the Patriot League. And in 2003 the Hoyas were making strides. They had some real talent--especially on the D-line but then two things happened to destroy that momentum: 1) Coach Benson made a horrible hire of a new AD; 2) Benson had to leave. Then the new AD made near desparate hire and it has all been in decline ever since.
If the football program waits for a bunch of money, it will be waiting for a long time. If the football program is waiting for a fundamental change in the emphasis on football at the highest administrative level, it will be waiting for a long time. But if the football program can find a charismatic young coordinator from a D-II school, that one change can have a significant effect next September. That's not the whole solution, but it's the only feasible step that can be taken quickly. I wholeheartedly believe that.
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Post by gwhiz on Nov 13, 2009 20:08:42 GMT -5
I'm not familiar with that time period, but I would guess that the attitude toward football was far more positive then than now. And I would say that the success during those years is what helped get the improvements that are now in place. That would include the field turf and brick work. But I suspect that those years included victories over teams that nobody knew or cared about. Now with Georgetown in the PL and playing a lot of schools which were likely being considered by the students at Georgetown when they applied to colleges, I think the dynamic is very different. A win over Yale, Brown, Penn, Lehigh, Lafayette would mean a lot more than a win over Robert Morris (no offense intended to Robert Morris). The problem has been that the success at the lower level of I-AA gave everyone hope for success in the Patriot League. And in 2003 the Hoyas were making strides. They had some real talent--especially on the D-line but then two things happened to destroy that momentum: 1) Coach Benson made a horrible hire of a new AD; 2) Benson had to leave. Then the new AD made near desparate hire and it has all been in decline ever since. If the football program waits for a bunch of money, it will be waiting for a long time. If the football program is waiting for a fundamental change in the emphasis on football at the highest administrative level, it will be waiting for a long time. But if the football program can find a charismatic young coordinator from a D-II school, that one change can have a significant effect next September. That's not the whole solution, but it's the only feasible step that can be taken quickly. I wholeheartedly believe that. Keep the common sense thread going EB, Hopeful, Redskin, NY.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Nov 23, 2009 22:54:27 GMT -5
My general feelings on the program, as an outsider to the football program, but a loyal student fan who still shows up for homecoming games as an alumnus are these:
We are faced with a basic decision - either we fully commit the University to football or we end the program. It is clear that a 20% or 30% solution does not work.
The University has tight resources for all non-basketball sports. Some programs seem to be able to reach success without these resources - soccer, lacrosse, sailing, crew, and track and field come to mind. For whatever reason, they have managed to do more with very little. Another assumption that I am going to make is that football cannot be sustained completely through alumni giving, there is simply no way that the Gridiron Club and Hoyas Unlimited have the operating budget to cover travel expenses, equipment, recruiting costs, coaches salaries, and all other costs associated with playing in the Patriot League. Therefore, to some extent a dollar spent on football takes away from another non-basketball sport. I'm also going to assume that there is a significant overlap between people who give to the University and those that give to football program specifically. There may be some people that would only donate their money to the football program, but most would also give money to the University in some other way.
Therefore, the consequence of prioritizing football spending and heavily soliciting football donations is that, at least initially, you will be taking money from other sports to fund this increased investment and you will be channeling money that would have otherwise gone to other parts of the University to football. As I've already stated, there are some programs that seem to do just fine with a shoe-string budget. However, there could be consequences if soccer, lacrosse, or another sport receives less money because football has been prioritized. The soccer teams might be unable to compete in the Big East. The track and field team might be unable to travel to as many meets. The swimming team might have less money to recruit local swimmers. You get the idea. Therefore, the net effect of increasing funding in football could be to start a nose dive in every other sport other than basketball. In addition, football takes up relatively more resources than other sports. It has more specialized equipment than many of the other non-basketball sports. It has more players. It requires a substantial amount of travel in the north-east. It also has a number of coaches, where many other sports may have fewer coaches. If the Unviersity's goal is to be competitive in as many sports as possible, then increasing funding for the football program doesn't really make sense.
There's an argument to be made that a commitment to the football program can drive donations and ultimately help out other sports and the University. I saw the example of Cincinnati mentioned. I can think of some others - like T. Boone Pickens giving truckloads of money to Oklahoma State simple because he likes football and oil in that order. There are a number of factors preventing this from happening at Georgetown. First, there appears to be no large donor or donors in waiting. If the MSF is any indication, large contributions to the football program have not been forthcoming for several years. I'm not privy to who's who in the Gridiron Club and other circles, so I could be wrong about that - but its my opinion based on what I've observed since 2003. Second, in order to turn a football program into a real revenue-generator you need facilities that are impossible to provide given the space on Georgetown's campus. Space is an incredibly scarce resource on campus. Moving the football team to another location - such as a renovated Kehoe - would take space from other University activities (for example that could mean that Yates is shut down considerably hampering student life and leading some prospective students to choose a school other than Georgetown, it could also mean the end of Field Hockey and create some title IX compliance issues). Even if a completely revamped, brick stadium were built between the Southwest Quad and the Business building, it can only be so big. A 25,000 seat stadium is not going to fit there. The University can't expand the space for the stadium much beyond its current dimensions because of another consideration relating to my comment about limited space. There are only two roads that bisect the campus. They are on either side of the Multi-Sport Facility. If those roads are cut off then Georgetown becomes a 100% pedestrian campus, it limits the access of emergency vehicles to student spaces. If an emergency were to happen and emergency vehicles couldn't get to the students because the football facility was blocking the roads that would be used to get to the students, that mean the University is being asked to choose between potential student deaths or increased damage to University property in an unfortunate emergency and having a bigger football stadium. Given the cost of law suits and higher insurance premiums, that's not a choice a University is likely to make. Finally, a large football stadium only generates revenue if you sell tickets to the games. This is a problem. Currently the games are not highly attended. But even assuming that a quality winning team was in the stadium year after year, Georgetown does not have a large alumni base in the DC area. Given that there are some alumni that are not interested in sports or don't want to spend money on attending sporting events, the number of alumni in the area who can attend football games is even smaller. Some people from the community might attend the games. However, there are professional football, basketball, hockey, baseball, soccer, and women's basketball franchises to compete with in this regard. These fans could also attend a Maryland football game which might be preferable to them because Maryland plays Division I football and their stadium is slightly easier to get to than an expanded MSF field would be. That brings me to my next point, people don't go to the games if they can't get there. Currently the parking lots for the MSF are in SWQ and McDonough. These parking lots can barely handle a basketball game in McDonough (where most of the fans are students). It would be impossible for the current parking system to handle 10,000 football fans. It's also hard to see how moving the MSF off-campus would help. Many students attend games because they are cheap (currently free) and in the middle of campus. Its asking a lot of a student to get up early on a weekend and then travel off-campus to watch a football game. I know this happens at some D-I football schools, but it seems that this would be an extremely hard sale at Georgetown initially.
The other alternative is to cancel the football program entirely. The benefit to doing this is that there are more sports resources to go around. There will be some alumni who won't donate to the athletics program after football is canceled. I'm sure there are some on this board that would do that. However, as I assumed earlier - these donations don't completely sustain the football team. Therefore, resources that would have gone to make up the difference between annual donations and the cost of the football program will no longer be diverted to the football program. The school can also consolidate other sports into the MSF - like men's and women's soccer meaning that there would be more space to use for other sports. In addition, because of Title IX compliance the school could simultaneously end at least one lagging women's sport (field hockey comes to mind). So there would be even more resources to go around to other sports. The school may take a hit because it no longer has a football program. However, this is likely to be marginal because basketball and academics are the two things that Georgetown is known for. This would not change after the program is cut. The school went without football for several years and did fine during that time, it could do it again. There are some student life traditions that might take a hit - like homecoming. However, there are other ways to recast homecoming to make it just as popular - such as holding homecoming on a date that coincides with the first basketball game of the year. Or combining homecoming and midnight madness. Moreover, the school has changed student-life traditions many times without detracting significantly from the overall student experience. For example, ask someone who graduated after 2005 about the blockparty and they will look at you with a blank stare. Ask a 2004 graduate about Georgetown Day and they will go on a diatribe about how awesome the block party used to be. I don't think admissions or alumni giving took a substantial hit because the block party became Georgetown Day. There is likely to be a similar marginal impact if Homecoming becomes an extended celebration of midnight madness.
So on balance, I think that these efforts are well-intentioned but there is limited money for athletics and limited space for a revenue-generating stadium for football. Without an even that would change these trends (either a giant donation to the football program or Georgetown buying Burlieth) it appears that the costs of keeping the football program outweigh the benefits.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,730
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 23, 2009 23:02:28 GMT -5
We are faced with a basic decision - either we fully commit the University to football or we end the program. It is clear that a 20% or 30% solution does not work. I could comment on this entire post but it's late. To the above claim, this statement: If Georgetown pursued this kind of "all or nothing" position, then its sports program would go Division III, because 26 of its 29 sports are (and probably will never be) fully funded but provide plenty of opportunities to succeed. Then again, men's basketball probably spends too much money and not enough is left for other sports, but that's business.
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derhoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 584
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Post by derhoya on Nov 24, 2009 10:26:42 GMT -5
Well you can mark me down as a football alum who would not give a nickle to gtown if they cut fball.
And I don't buy the thought that homecoming can be fitted with basketball. MM doesn't have an actual game; it's a glorified pep rally/dunking contest basically, big woohooo there. Oh and we play at Verizon, I don't see us closing 7th street and parking a half dozen Bud Light keg trucks outside for us to enjoy. McD couldn't hold anyone if the game was there...
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theexorcist
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,506
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Post by theexorcist on Nov 24, 2009 10:46:16 GMT -5
We are faced with a basic decision - either we fully commit the University to football or we end the program. It is clear that a 20% or 30% solution does not work. I could comment on this entire post but it's late. To the above claim, this statement: If Georgetown pursued this kind of "all or nothing" position, then its sports program would go Division III, because 26 of its 29 sports are (and probably will never be) fully funded but provide plenty of opportunities to succeed. Then again, men's basketball probably spends too much money and not enough is left for other sports, but that's business. This was the smaller post to quote. Georgetown has, in the past, succeeded at modest goals for football - they dominated a weak conference. Five or six years back, they beat Towson - a school now in the CAA - at Towson. Georgetown's head coach has been castigated continuously for both day-of-game and recruiting decisions. To advocate vaporizing the program based primarily on his results seems strange. Before the season went into the toilet, Georgetown lost hard-fought games to Holy Cross and Bucknell in conference. They lost close games to Howard and Marist. So, in probably the worst season in recent memory, one in which the Hoyas were so awful that every post-game thread plumbed new depths, they weren't that far away from being 3-8, 1-5 in conference, finishing above Bucknell and playing the champs close. This is not Vanderbilt showing up every year to get slaughtered by the SEC. It's not Northeastern getting beaten up by I-AA's finest. If this is rock bottom, there's hope. If the above is reasonable, then there's no need for a "fund it or kill it" approach. Georgetown can draw nice crowds to the MSF for a middle-of-the-road team with not much more investment.
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Post by hoyawatcher on Nov 24, 2009 11:46:57 GMT -5
Without copying StPete's expose again, I would respond by saying I hope that with the new AD athletic funding is not a zero sum game between sports. I am hopeful that the primary focus for the new AD is fundraising in general to assist the school with all sports - including FB. Right now GU operates on a budget that is woefully below most of its BE peers and given the alumni base it shouldn't have to. Schools like Duke, Vandy, et al are very good at tapping their alumns and creating funding opportunities from their events. Do that better an a lot of ills can be cured in a lot of sports - not just FB.
I am very hopeful that they are not looking for a new AD simply to come in and recut the pie in new pieces parts.
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Post by 98hoya on Nov 24, 2009 13:03:04 GMT -5
A tangentially related question to hoyaparents's post: what % of Gridiron Club donors do not have a direct connection the program (e.g. parent of current or former player; former players)?
It's got to be near 0%, right?
Seems to me the goal, or at least the measuring stick of success, will be to get people from outside of the "directly connected" pool involved and donating.
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Post by strummer8526 on Nov 24, 2009 16:02:22 GMT -5
A tangentially related question to hoyaparents's post: what % of Gridiron Club donors do not have a direct connection the program (e.g. parent of current or former player; former players)? It's got to be near 0%, right? Seems to me the goal, or at least the measuring stick of success, will be to get people from outside of the "directly connected" pool involved and donating. No one will give anything unless the University starts giving information. I can throw cash down the toilet and know nothing about the direction of the program, too...but I'd rather not.
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