TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Oct 28, 2009 11:41:51 GMT -5
On a slightly related note, does anyone know how Austin Rivers compares to Jeremiah on an attitude level? From reading this thread and the linked articles, it sure sounds like Jeremiah might have had a little too much "I." 'Certainly hope that Austin has a lot more "we." Don't worry. I'm sure he'll be a team player when he ends up at Duke.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Oct 28, 2009 11:57:07 GMT -5
Wow, you really must not like the kid ... wanting him to go to Duke ... what did he ever do to you?
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Oct 28, 2009 12:00:24 GMT -5
Wow, you really must not like the kid ... wanting him to go to Duke ... what did he ever do to you? Just rumors, but I'm sure you know that. I personally hope that he stays at UF.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Oct 28, 2009 16:20:58 GMT -5
Because they choked! That outcome had nothing to do with Georgetown, Rivers or no Rivers. You're right - Jon Wallace's game-tying 3 had nothing to do with Georgetown. This is one of the top ten brain-dead things ever posted on this board. My point in bringing up that play: After Rivers' transfer and assorted comments in the media concerning his time at Georgetown, the Board has certainly done its part "responding in kind" and pointing out any number of Jeremiah's weaknesses as a player. Can you imagine if Ellington HAD hit that shot with Rivers defending on the play, and we hadn't made the Final Four? The Board would probably melt down at the mere mention of his name.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Oct 28, 2009 16:48:28 GMT -5
On a slightly related note, does anyone know how Austin Rivers compares to Jeremiah on an attitude level? From reading this thread and the linked articles, it sure sounds like Jeremiah might have had a little too much "I." 'Certainly hope that Austin has a lot more "we." From the quotes we've read (and his on/off recruitment process), it looks like it runs in the family. How it affects team chemistry is another story.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2009 11:11:36 GMT -5
Hi Guys!!
Why don't we all give the kid a break. It appears that he didn't enjoy the disciplined FT3 approach to the game and now is "enjoying himself" more at Indiana. That IS a legitimate reason to transfer. He is still probably a good kid and we shouldn't be too hard on him. I don't feel that he was really taking a swipe at us. He was just saying that it wasn't for him.
I am in a tiny minority of probably one who felt that he had NBA potential had he stayed. There have been several NBA players who have spent years in the league only because they were great defensive players with limited offensive abilities. I watched the NBA summer league and there were a zillion players with great offensive abilities, but hardly any of them could play defense. Jeremiah had decent size and strength. With time and maturity he would have become even stronger. What's more, he had natural defensive instincts.
Jeremiah appears to be unhappy to be designated as a defensive stopper. BIG MISTAKE!! He has a unique skill that would only improve with time. I suspect that he will improve offensively, but he will never be a Jeff Green, or a Jonathan Wallace for example.
What I find most interesting is that last year, his father Doc Rivers came out publicly and disagreed with Jeremiah's decision to transfer. It appears that he wants to enjoy himself more and I hope he does. I just feel badly that he will probably never become the player he could have been.
Incidently, JT3 had three transfers while he was at Princeton (all for the same reason as Jeremiah). Two ultimately returned to Princeton and another transferred to Yale and had a so-so career there.
Jerry
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Post by strummer8526 on Oct 29, 2009 11:23:24 GMT -5
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Oct 29, 2009 12:16:47 GMT -5
JerryLH wrote:
Jeremiah appears to be unhappy to be designated as a defensive stopper. BIG MISTAKE!! He has a unique skill that would only improve with time.
Excellent point. I think that far too often a lot of fundamental skills aren't deteriorating because they are flashy enough. Good solid defense in on that short list for sure. Yet come NBA playoffs, suddenly everyone seems to remember that defense "wins championships." Even the Lakers kicked up their defense come playoffs. We think of them as an offensive team, and they certainly have had their share of scorers. But if you think about the recent champions -- Lakers, Celtics, Pistons, Spurs and Heat -- all were at least solid defensively. Meanwhile, the up and down teams with good records some years -- Kings, Rockets, Nuggets, Mavericks -- have always come up short. Of those, I guess the Heat in their championship season would be the closest to the exception, but even they were pretty good defensively come crunch time.
Getting back to disappearing skills ... is there ANYONE who stills features the mid range jumper in college?
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ScreamingHoya
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Post by ScreamingHoya on Oct 29, 2009 13:18:23 GMT -5
I am in a tiny minority of probably one who felt that he had NBA potential had he stayed. Jerry Nominated for post of the year just for it's sheer absurdity. NBA? Are you serious? I watched him play at the Capital Classic (the bad one, that was at GW), and immediately saw that this kid wouldn't be able to handle college ball. Also, Jerry, we're not criticizing him for going to a place where he would be more comfortable- we're criticizing the fact that he took a notable swipe at a system that he couldn't handle, and with bad evidence. In one breath he says that he would have to do the same thing over and over, but also that he never knew where he was supposed to be on the floor.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 29, 2009 13:22:24 GMT -5
Rivers has NBA potential in his size, quickness, etc. -- his physical attributes. He has good defensive skills and his handle is better than people give him credit for.
I thought he had NBA potential as well -- but an extremely low chance of actually making it because of his shot.
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Post by strummer8526 on Oct 29, 2009 13:27:22 GMT -5
There are guys in the GU Law Center gym right now who are better ballplayers and have a better shot at the NBA than Jeremiah Rivers. I can't even believe this is a discussion. Think about some of our players who have NOT made the league. And we're going to say Rivers could?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2009 13:51:32 GMT -5
Hi guys!! I am speaking about his defensive ability. This young man was really, reallyl good. None of our players had even close to his defensive abilities. NONE BTW-John Wallace was terrific in the summer league. However, it was obvious that he was never going to be able to guard an NBA quality guard. OK Strummer, who is a better defensive player on our team or in the Big East for that matter? ? I can only remember one time, that he couldn't control a player and that was Curry. Jeremiah was one of the best defensive stopper we have had in a long time. He gave Ellington a fit and did a really good job on Johnny Flynn. That skill is special. Does Bruce Bowen or Raja Bell have great offensive ability??? Remember Eric Snow of Philadelpha?? Doug Christie?? These players didn't score much, but stayed around because they made the all defensive NBA teams. I am saying that Rivers has the "potential" to become that good an offensive player.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 29, 2009 14:00:01 GMT -5
Strummer and Screaming,
There are plenty of college players who were better than DaJuan Summers who had no shot at the NBA. It's not a 1:1. The NBA requires certain levels of athleticism that some people cannot reach. Period.
Rivers has those physical tools, whether you like it or not. Now his skill set in shooting is so far behind I don't think he'll make it without a little help from dad. But unlike a lot of college players, there's a chance he makes it.
Think of an opposite example.
How many college basketball players were better than Roy was as sophomore? How many of those had less pro potential.
Quality of play and pro potential aren't the same thing.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Oct 29, 2009 14:03:27 GMT -5
On Nov. 12, this thread needs to be moved to quarantine.
Bad mojo.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Oct 29, 2009 20:13:05 GMT -5
I'll back up the Rivers as NBA prospect analysis. Face it - he was the best perimeter defender on our team, and he was probably the best in the conference when it came to that. We won games because of his ability to shut folks down or contain them when they got hot - Flynn at the MCI Center, for example. We missed it last year, particularly against Tennessee, which sticks in my mind because Cameron Tatum is garbage.
Jeremiah's offensive game was terrible and probably still is, but what is shocking is that it didn't keep him off the floor. That speaks to his defense. If he even saw marginal improvement in that, you would be looking at a prototypical second rounder who an NBA team slots for a role.
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Post by FromTheBeginning on Oct 29, 2009 21:39:16 GMT -5
I'm an "older gentleman" so I must have dozed off for the year or two when Rivers grew three inches and developed an NBA level handle and passing skills that turned him into a league prospect.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Oct 30, 2009 0:15:14 GMT -5
count me in with the rivers can play in the NBA crowd....don't let the hate of him fool you...he's got nba size for his position, nba athleticism and he can already defend at the nba level...if he improves offensively, he'll get a shot at the league for sure
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Post by vamosalaplaya on Oct 30, 2009 8:38:49 GMT -5
I will add the Scottie Reynolds stop - okay, Reynolds was dribbling with his head down towards the baseline - at home against Nova as another memorable Rivers moment. Last year the team missed his ability to close down opposing scorers in close games.
His offensive game would have needed to improve, of course. I'll add David Wingate as another player who lasted many years without a great NBA offensive game (much better in college than Rivers, to be clear) but who was a defensive stopper.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Oct 30, 2009 8:39:59 GMT -5
He has a shot, if he improves offensively in the sense that he improves his passing and dribbling a great deal, and then finds a genie who grants him a wish and one of them is to be able to shoot. So I'm saying he has a shot.
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HoyaTex22
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Post by HoyaTex22 on Oct 30, 2009 9:15:59 GMT -5
I read daily/weekly, but post only a few times a year. This is ridiculous enough to log in, however.
You guys are crazy if you think Jeremiah Rivers has a chance at the NBA. Do you all realize exactly how difficult it is to make the league?
A player essentially needs to be a first round pick or one of a very few second rounders to have a legit chance at making a roster. That means said player needs to become one of the top 30-40 college aged players in the world. Assuming about 300 NCAA Div I teams and 10 spots on each, this means he needs to be in the top 1-2% of players in the NCAA D1. This number drops even further when you factor in internationals. Even if, against all odds, he elevates to the top 2% of his college aged peers, he will then need to prove he is one of the best 360 players across the entire globe.
I'd say he has a very long way to go from 2.5 pts, 2.4 rebs, 1.0 assist per game. Anyone up for a friendly wager?
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