cnyhoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by cnyhoya on Oct 23, 2009 12:20:02 GMT -5
I had pretty much forgotten about JR, and moved on. The comments he has made I think reflect worse on him than on the Hoyas.
But at least this makes for one more interesting story line to follow this year - the BabyDoc Boxscore Updates!
Bring on the season.
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,080
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Post by Elvado on Oct 23, 2009 13:14:57 GMT -5
It's just talk. I can't wait for the season to get started, so we can see what is what! If JR does break out as a good offensive player, rightly or wrongly, it will be perceived by some as an indictment of the way he was utilized at GU. I highly doubt that will happen. The most damning indictment of the way he was utilized is that he was utilized... He stunk in a Joseph Tuomou kind of way...
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casualhoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by casualhoya on Oct 23, 2009 15:24:19 GMT -5
Whoa...I was about to let this topic die when you had to go and criticize Joe Touomou. Joe was my year at Georgetown ('99) and was nothing but a stand-up guy who left it all on the court, especially on the defensive end.
Joe has nothing in common with Jeremiah Rivers. Nothing.
Casually.
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Oct 23, 2009 15:25:58 GMT -5
You would think a teammate, coach, family member would have let him know he needs to stop making comments like this in the media. However he means what he says, and the intent of saying it is not as important as the fact that his quotes open the door for a variety of interpretations.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Oct 23, 2009 15:27:39 GMT -5
QUOTE: “This offense is so much better because I'm not going out there and worrying about going to a specific spot or running the exact same play three or four times in a row,'' Rivers said. In contrast, “At Georgetown I would run the same thing over and over, and it became so repetitive. I really became like a robot there offensively. I had no idea how to play anymore." Well, at least we know he excels at self-contradiction.
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
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Post by FLHoya on Oct 23, 2009 15:46:21 GMT -5
I repeat my statement from last week: I have no curiosity about Jeremiah Rivers whatsoever. If he needs to do this to boost his own confidence, or ego, or whatever, so be it. I think most of us know he's full of it with this type of statement. I've moved on. I'm pretty sure Georgetown has moved on. It would probably behoove Jeremiah Rivers to move on as well. Agreed with one exception and one addition: Exception: I am actually curious to see how he and The Vern play this season...but just that: curious. Nothing more, nothing less. I'll actually get a chance in person at the Jimmy V Classic. Addition: I think any potential GU recruit interested in perspective on how the Georgetown system helps/hinders players is more likely to place stock in our recent NBA draftees than the 2nd/3rd man off Tom Crean's bench.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Oct 23, 2009 15:49:42 GMT -5
I think we are all familiar to a degree with our offense after these 5 years, and many people have become conversant in it despite it being a "system" or different style of play. Some have statistical approaches even to reduce it to science. Others may have played in the system or a similar system.
Yet, I think all can appreciate that "not knowing where to be" on the floor is not a reflection of some mad scientist system or worse but that a person in question simply lacked an understanding of the game itself. Having watched Jeremiah offensively, I wouldn't disagree and, based on his defense, it might be said that he does well to screw up any offense on both sides of the ball.
That a player could then commend whatever Crean runs in the same breath is a bit much to take given that Crean is probably still pitching Dwayne Wade because he can't pitch anybody else from his time at Marquette. Dominic James was Scottie Reynolds before Scottie Reynolds even thought about it. In any event, since his time at Indiana, he has sought out such luminaries as Malik Story to round out his "system." You couldn't make it up if you tried.
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757hoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,999
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Post by 757hoyafan on Oct 23, 2009 15:54:37 GMT -5
Whoa...I was about to let this topic die when you had to go and criticize Joe Touomou. Joe was my year at Georgetown ('99) and was nothing but a stand-up guy who left it all on the court, especially on the defensive end. Joe has nothing in common with Jeremiah Rivers. Nothing. Casually. Stop kidding yourself.
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Bay99
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 510
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Post by Bay99 on Oct 23, 2009 20:04:52 GMT -5
There is some truth in Rivers's comments. It is a limiting system if you're a guard who can't shoot.
That sounds like a dig, but I'm serious: if you're a guard/wing who can't hit the open shot, you're going to be limited in this offense. Rivers can't shoot. He was a very strong defender, a capable ball handler, but he could not hit a shot from 15 feet out. That's OK if you're 6'9" and get on the glass, not so much at 6'4".
(If I was going to look for a dig, I'd say: You'd think a guy who was only the third-best player in his own family would understand the concept of the role-player...)
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Post by Giannicolus Jones on Oct 23, 2009 21:59:43 GMT -5
Agree with Casual. No reason to bash on Joe Toumou.
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Elvado on Oct 24, 2009 8:52:36 GMT -5
Agree with Casual. No reason to bash on Joe Toumou. Let's get a little perspective here. Tuomou tried really hard and was a great guy. Probably will be a very successful diplomat with all of the superfluous glad-handing that made up his on-court persona. That said, he was a defensive stopper who couldn't stop (see Billet in BET) and an offensive horror show. Simply stated: good guy lousy player. When I said Rivers stunk in a Tuomou kind of way, I was describing his play not the player.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 24, 2009 9:14:42 GMT -5
If I'm choosing a player between the two I'll take Rivers over Tuomou. Easily. But if I'm choosing a human being it may be a different story.
Jeremiah is still upset...growing more angry every day it appears. He may or may not be delusional about his own abilities. But perhaps we're devoting too much attention to the guy.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Oct 24, 2009 10:50:07 GMT -5
I'd take JT over JR any day!
Rivers should write a blog during the season. I would love to read it as the season goes along. He'll blame everyone around him. It would be funny in a delusional kind of way.
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aggypryd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by aggypryd on Oct 24, 2009 14:15:03 GMT -5
Good luck, Jeremiah!! Have a good season at IU!!
You too, Vernon!!
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Oct 24, 2009 14:31:50 GMT -5
Joe tuomou --> Ray Reed--> jeramiah rivers
a proud lineage of good defenders with crappy offensive games.
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by mapei on Oct 25, 2009 7:49:54 GMT -5
I don't think it was all that bad, honestly. It could have been (a lot) more tactfully put, obviously, but any player in a new situation is going to be optimistic and compare it favorably to the old. I hope he does well at IU.
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by bmartin on Oct 25, 2009 11:10:17 GMT -5
It wasn't the Princeton offense that limited his shots, it was coach and team recognition of the fact that Hibbert, Wallace, Summers, Freeman, Sapp, and Ewing were much more effective offensive players. In any offense, Rivers' most efficient role would have been to help set up the other guys on his team for open shots.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Oct 25, 2009 11:12:17 GMT -5
A coach's job is to win games--and while Rivers was here--Georgetown won--so III did his job. It's always a stronger debate of being "not used correctly" when you aren't playing as much, etc...and your team LOSES. Obviously the role he was asked to do suited him/the team well--and a player's ego got in the way. We'll see how it works out for Rivers/Indiana but I can tell you one thing---unless Creepy Bastard Crean gets that team 2 Big 10 Championships, 2 Big 10 Tournament Finals (1 title) and a Final Four in Rivers last two years--there is no way in hell Rivers will be as successful at Indiana. *
*= my definition of success being the TEAM WINNING over a player's individual success.
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Post by majic on Oct 25, 2009 11:36:54 GMT -5
Joe Touomou blew out his knee his senior year of high school. Georgetown had already offered him a scholarship and remained committed to him even though he was never the player they offered and saw while he was in high school during his tenure at Georgetown. Joe did what he could to try to be an asset to his teams so he focused on defense. Anyone who saw him after games would see him limping down the back hallway at the then MCI center to the bus. He had ice on his knees and was in constant pain. He never complained or made excuses.
ESPN Insider has an article up stating that Crean is going to change his offensive scheme to target Rivers' game. I am not an Insider so I can't read the article, but if someone is and can report out if this is accurate, that would be great for this thread. Jeremiah is hoping this is a better fit. I wish him luck.
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MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 25, 2009 11:42:39 GMT -5
It wasn't the Princeton offense that limited his shots, it was coach and team recognition of the fact that Hibbert, Wallace, Summers, Freeman, Sapp, and Ewing were much more effective offensive players. In any offense, Rivers' most efficient role would have been to help set up the other guys on his team for open shots. To be fair the Princeton offense does limit the shots all players take because of 1) the typical pace and 2)shots are more evenly distributed. That being said obviously Rivers wasn't the ideal candidate you wanted to jack up shots when you had other options like Green, Hibbert, Wallace, Summers, etc. Still when you are left open you were supposed to shoot and I don't think Rivers was too comfortable doing that. I'm guessing he prefers to drive to the hoop. Hopefully with his one season of sitting out he has worked a lot on his shooting form.
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