Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 17, 2009 10:52:24 GMT -5
Here's the blog of the guy who scripted the Bruno/Eminem incident and admitted it was staged after Eminem outed it. His entry on Kanye is way, way, way over the top. You be the judge. scottaukerman.tumblr.com/Good lord, CAPS LOCK MUCH?? The guy reminds me of Jackie Harvey and "The Outside Scoop" for The Onion.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Sept 17, 2009 10:54:19 GMT -5
I watched a few of their speeches and that was not was said in any shape, or form. The Tea Party people hate a liberal party governing and are driven to oppose whatever Fox News tells them to oppose. I sure hope that the democrat party takes the same position and continues to dismiss all of these people as a bunch of brainless dolts who simply do what Fox News tells them. Keep dismissing this anger and discontent out of hand - that's the formula for the GOP to come back. Could you direct me to the website of the "Democrat" [sic] Party? In a community of well-educated individuals, I think most appreciate that nouns do not modify nouns. Indeed, it is a purposeful misuse of the English language. In the context of your argument, it suggests that indeed the "Publicans" [sic] are a bunch of brainless dolts and harbor some residual disdain for opposition.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Sept 17, 2009 11:00:25 GMT -5
I guess I can see why you think it might be staged if you didn't actually see it but only read about it. Also knowing what kind of self-involved jerk Kanye West is- it was right in keeping with his history and as mentioned, the two of them would have made Lawrence Olivier proud if it were fake. West was made to look like a total jerk- he wouldn't have done that on purpose which would have been obvious given time to think about it, but on accident because he is such a brat? Sure! He certainly seemed genuinely chastened afterwards.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Sept 17, 2009 11:14:11 GMT -5
Tea Party protestors aren't opposed to being taxed in principle. Their issue lies in the fact that the results of what they get for those taxes are poor compared to the private sector. The voiced complaint makes reference to a sense of fairness in the protestors' alleged resort to the free market - taxi cabs - as compared to the "public option." (Reference to TalkingPointsMemo) I did not get necessarily that their issue was with results of the Metro as compared to taxi services but, rather, that they felt entitled to a level of service not provided on that particular day on the Metro.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Sept 17, 2009 11:26:32 GMT -5
So, when the Democratic Party gets hammered in the November elections, will the Democratic talking points for the defeat blame racism, the fact that all of the people in the US save those in a few metro areas are idiots, or both? Stop beating on that strawman, it just wanted to sit next to you on the bus. You're really making the argument that tea party nutbags are representative of non-metro areas? Or that those people were Democratic votes in past elections? In 2004, just after the election, Slate had a variety of reasons on why the Democrats lost. One of them was a remarkably vituperative complaint that all Americans who voted for Bush were idiots. There's also "What's The Matter With Kansas", which blames voters in the Midwest for acting against self-interest. There is a continuous thread in Democratic party thought that postulates that most Americans are consistently snookered by evil Republicans like rubes at the county fair. It seeks to demean all people who support things like the tea party as marginal fools on the sidelines. Republicans usually don't blame the people - they blame the media and then themselves. This is fine when the only thing that is happening are demonstrations and town hall protests and Democrats can claim that "the majority of people support the President and his plans". It won't work in November, where they are two major races (CT and VA governor) and the Democrats look to get trounced - especially in Virginia, which is supposedly the harbringer of a red state turning blue. At that point, Democrats' assertions that everybody's really on their side and that the people who are demonstrating represent more than a lunatic fringe are going to come crashing down. At that point, I'm wondering if the Democrats will blame latent racism from people who they think were scared of a black president, or if they'll blame Virginians for being idiots who don't realize that health care reform is really for their benefit. As opposed to, you know, Congress and the White House being both largely unable to find their posteriors with four hands and a Tom Tom.
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TC
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Post by TC on Sept 17, 2009 11:47:22 GMT -5
Exorcist, you keep going back to this "Democrats will blame racism" line when we were talking about taxes and the role of Government. WTF. I think the Tea Party Protesters are wildly hyperpartisan nutcases that take what Fox News says as gospel. I don't think the reason they are out there protesting is racism. If Hillary is elected, I think they are out there just the same. Happy?
That said, going back to your argument that they aren't against taxes "in principle" - when you put speakers out there that call all taxation "theft", it's a little hard for anyone to take that argument with a straight face. The Metro thing is complete hypocrisy.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Sept 17, 2009 13:29:16 GMT -5
I watched a few of their speeches and that was not was said in any shape, or form. The Tea Party people hate a liberal party governing and are driven to oppose whatever Fox News tells them to oppose. I sure hope that the democrat party takes the same position and continues to dismiss all of these people as a bunch of brainless dolts who simply do what Fox News tells them. Keep dismissing this anger and discontent out of hand - that's the formula for the GOP to come back. You know that Obama didn't win 100% of the vote, right? There's a damn good chance that the people protesting are people who didn't vote for him. Unless you have any evidence that these protesters are new voters or former Obama voters, I think you might want to hold off on planning your 2012 victory party.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Sept 17, 2009 13:30:33 GMT -5
TC, guess I didn't realize the Tea Party Protesters were wildly hyperpartisan nutcases. I appreciate your letting me know.
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TC
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Post by TC on Sept 17, 2009 14:19:46 GMT -5
No problem, I can see how you might not have realized that given that it wasn't a headline on Drudge Report.
Seriously, if you're going to split hairs, at least read the post. You might not agree with my opinion, but I clearly presented it as an opinion and not a statement of fact.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Sept 17, 2009 14:31:37 GMT -5
I sure hope that the democrat party takes the same position and continues to dismiss all of these people as a bunch of brainless dolts who simply do what Fox News tells them. Keep dismissing this anger and discontent out of hand - that's the formula for the GOP to come back. You know that Obama didn't win 100% of the vote, right? There's a damn good chance that the people protesting are people who didn't vote for him. Unless you have any evidence that these protesters are new voters or former Obama voters, I think you might want to hold off on planning your 2012 victory party. Even if they're not, the fact that they paid their own money to show up in D.C. shows that they're annoyed. They can raise a lot of money and, if they believe that Republicans will address their issues, they become a large voting bloc.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Sept 17, 2009 14:59:57 GMT -5
You know that Obama didn't win 100% of the vote, right? There's a damn good chance that the people protesting are people who didn't vote for him. Unless you have any evidence that these protesters are new voters or former Obama voters, I think you might want to hold off on planning your 2012 victory party. Even if they're not, the fact that they paid their own money to show up in D.C. shows that they're annoyed. They can raise a lot of money and, if they believe that Republicans will address their issues, they become a large voting bloc. Again, you're assuming these people weren't opposed to Obama before his election, or that they didn't vote. They were a voting bloc in the last election, they just weren't numerically large enough. I'm not one to bank on long-term predictions in politics (I think we all learned that lesson from Karl Rove's "permanent Republican majority"), but the demographics don't look good for the GOP in the near future. I don't see any drop in Obama's numbers being met by rising GOP numbers.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 17, 2009 15:02:07 GMT -5
I sure hope that the democrat party takes the same position and continues to dismiss all of these people as a bunch of brainless dolts who simply do what Fox News tells them. Keep dismissing this anger and discontent out of hand - that's the formula for the GOP to come back. Could you direct me to the website of the "Democrat" [sic] Party? In a community of well-educated individuals, I think most appreciate that nouns do not modify nouns. Indeed, it is a purposeful misuse of the English language. In the context of your argument, it suggests that indeed the "Publicans" [sic] are a bunch of brainless dolts and harbor some residual disdain for opposition. Ever think I was intentionally calling them the democrat party as opposed to the democratic party? Yes, it was purposeful. Well done. You caught me.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Sept 17, 2009 15:22:12 GMT -5
I guess I can see why you think it might be staged if you didn't actually see it but only read about it. Also knowing what kind of self-involved jerk Kanye West is- it was right in keeping with his history and as mentioned, the two of them would have made Lawrence Olivier proud if it were fake. West was made to look like a total jerk- he wouldn't have done that on purpose which would have been obvious given time to think about it, but on accident because he is such a brat? Sure! He certainly seemed genuinely chastened afterwards. I'm not saying that Kanye was scripted, I think more that the network fed his ego and told him that he was the star of the show should make sure that the cameras knew he was there. By never punishing him for his past behavior, they gave him an implicit green light to make an ass out of himself. He probably went beyond what they expected, but I doubt anyone at MTV thinks that this is a bad thing. Similarly, I doubt the GOP is being honest that they are truly disappointed with Joe Wilson. Even if he was rude, the opposition now has a face.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 17, 2009 15:33:14 GMT -5
As someone who reads lots of conservative Web sites, I can tell you for certain that originally, many, many conservative public figures, pundits, bloggers, etc. were embarrassed by his outburst. I can think of very few who said he didn't act inappropriately. (I think Ann Coulter stood up for him from jump, not sure what Rush's response was). They agreed with his sentiment, yes, but not his action.
After several days of haranguing, being called a racist by many (even if not by Jimmy Carter) and the threat of censure, I can tell you that the tune changed dramatically.
Of course, those are public words. You might be saying that privately or internally, conservatives were not disappointed. Obviously, no one can confirm or deny that.
I do think you are probably spot on in your characterization of MTV, as opposed to my earlier one. "Staged" or "scripted" are probably not the right words. "Enabled," maybe? That probably fits a little better. ("Plied with alcohol" may be another, one of the great MTV tools of all time.)
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Sept 17, 2009 15:37:48 GMT -5
I can only tell you that I was "truly disappointed" to say the least with Wilson, I was angry that he embarassed not the party but rather the forum and the offices- his and Obamas'. I agree with this exactly about the Kanye incident.... www.takimag.com/article/kayne_west_hates_white_people/
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Sept 17, 2009 15:53:23 GMT -5
Could you direct me to the website of the "Democrat" [sic] Party? In a community of well-educated individuals, I think most appreciate that nouns do not modify nouns. Indeed, it is a purposeful misuse of the English language. In the context of your argument, it suggests that indeed the "Publicans" [sic] are a bunch of brainless dolts and harbor some residual disdain for opposition. Ever think I was intentionally calling them the democrat party as opposed to the democratic party? Yes, it was purposeful. Well done. You caught me. Any your point is?
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Sept 17, 2009 15:53:32 GMT -5
As a conservative Republican, I thought Joe Wilson's outburst was way out of order. He apologized to the President and that should be the end of that. If anyone thinks he should continue to apologize and it would then pass on, see Trent Lott and George Allen.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Sept 18, 2009 19:29:20 GMT -5
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Sept 20, 2009 12:10:45 GMT -5
RNC Chairman Steele, who is fighting hard to distinguish himself in any way, shape or form, had this gem for us this morning:
"I found that to be stunning that the White House would send word to one of only two black governors in the country not to run for reelection."
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Post by HoyaLawya on Sept 20, 2009 12:30:27 GMT -5
I sure hope that the democrat party takes the same position and continues to dismiss all of these people as a bunch of brainless dolts who simply do what Fox News tells them. Keep dismissing this anger and discontent out of hand - that's the formula for the GOP to come back. You know that Obama didn't win 100% of the vote, right? There's a damn good chance that the people protesting are people who didn't vote for him. Unless you have any evidence that these protesters are new voters or former Obama voters, I think you might want to hold off on planning your 2012 victory party. I wasn't glued to the TV to watch the coverage of the March, but in looking at snips here and there on YouTube, I've been struck by the number of people who said they had come out of non-political cocoons due to the pace of the spending. I'm also looking at how this "historic race" didn't set any new historic records for the PERCENTAGE of registered voters who exercised their right to vote. Given a choice of McCain/Palin (Grumpy Old Man plus Bimbo Big Game Hunter of the North) and Obama/Biden (Pinko plus Gaffe-Master), 40% chose to sit it out and not vote. That group might be accountable for the T.E.A. uprising more than any other ..... Just a thought. After all, both McCain and Obama took the plunge with Bush to go along with Paulson as he demanded $700 billion for Wall St.
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