Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 15, 2009 11:06:32 GMT -5
I'm jsut amazed Del Potro won. He's only the second person besides Feder or Nadal to win a major title since Djokivic won the 2005 australian open. that's ridiculous and the fact that he had to go through Federer and Nadal is sick. I'm sad I didn't watch the final. Does anyone know why it started so early? By the time I got home from work, it was the fifth set. I know there was football, but there's almost always football for the US Open finals. I don't remember it starting this early in previous years, but I'm not a huge follower, so I could be completely mistaken. Even with the Pats-Bills (and that ridiculous ending), I still think they could have gotten a lot of viewers with a prime time broadcast.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Sept 15, 2009 13:06:18 GMT -5
Stig wrote:
And Federer went after the chair umpire in tonight's match. By your standards, that makes him a classless bully too.
Unless I missed an earlier confrontation, the issue you are mentioning was totally different. He "went after" the chair umpire on an issue of ruling. And unless there was another factor that they didn't clarify, they "got it wrong." At issue then was a serve by del Potro in the deuce court. The serve appeared to be long but Federer returned it half-heartedly. Del Potro, coming to the net, put the ball away while Federer was still standing over by the serving area. They didn't have the audio on at first, but when they did turn it up, Roger was talking to the chair umpire. The umpire was telling him that he "couldn't play it." What I understood them to be debating was that since Roger returned the ball, and since the ball was called good that it was in play. I don't know what ruling they decided on, but they did review the call and the serve was in fact long by a couple of inches. So it really should have been a second serve for del Potro. Instead, since they had originally given him the point, they played it as a let -- a "do over." Del Potro tried another "first serve" which he presumed to miss, and then we were right where we should have been ... only some 5 minutes later.
In any case, I don't think that was anything like Serena.
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HoyaNyr320
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Sept 15, 2009 23:21:26 GMT -5
First of all, what does any of this have to do with Attorney General Eric Holder? Are you TRYING to make this about race?
Secondly, what Serena did on the court was wrong. She deserved to lose the next point (and the match) and get the $10,000 fine from the US Open. However, I do not understand why people are calling for her to be suspended from a Grand Slam event or face even more severe punishment. Whether we like it or not, arguing with officials is a part of sports. I'm not making a judgment on whether it should be, but the fact is we see it in every American sport. There are of course consequences for arguing with officials. Baseball managers and basketball coaches routinely get thrown out of games and face fines. However, suspensions are extremely rare. For example, take a look at this video here: . Do you honestly think Lou Pinella is simply telling the umpire he disagreed with his call? I am SURE that Lou has told plenty of umpires to stick things where the sun don't shine and volunteered to do it for them. I'm not saying its right, but before we jump all over Serena and call for harsh consequences, let's think about how these outbursts are normally handled and not treat her differently.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Sept 16, 2009 6:03:19 GMT -5
First of all, what does any of this have to do with Attorney General Eric Holder? Are you TRYING to make this about race? It was a joke. Lighten up Francis.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Sept 16, 2009 6:08:32 GMT -5
Serena acted the part of a bully and a clown. Accept it. What part of my posts aren't you reading? I agreed all along that Serena acted the part of a bully and a clown! My point all along is that you shouldn't judge her character by one moment. If she's a classless bully by nature because of one bullying moment, then we're all bullies, because we've all lost our cool at some point and done things we're not proud of. This sort of behavior was NOT normal for Serena. She does not have a reputation for throwing tantrums, and off the top of my head I can't recall any other unsportsmanlike moments from her.
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The Stig
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by The Stig on Sept 16, 2009 6:10:19 GMT -5
First of all, what does any of this have to do with Attorney General Eric Holder? Are you TRYING to make this about race? It was a joke. Lighten up Francis. Jokes are supposed to be funny.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 16, 2009 7:53:02 GMT -5
First of all, what does any of this have to do with Attorney General Eric Holder? Are you TRYING to make this about race? Secondly, what Serena did on the court was wrong. She deserved to lose the next point (and the match) and get the $10,000 fine from the US Open. However, I do not understand why people are calling for her to be suspended from a Grand Slam event or face even more severe punishment. Whether we like it or not, arguing with officials is a part of sports. I'm not making a judgment on whether it should be, but the fact is we see it in every American sport. There are of course consequences for arguing with officials. Baseball managers and basketball coaches routinely get thrown out of games and face fines. However, suspensions are extremely rare. For example, take a look at this video here: . Do you honestly think Lou Pinella is simply telling the umpire he disagreed with his call? I am SURE that Lou has told plenty of umpires to stick things where the sun don't shine and volunteered to do it for them. I'm not saying its right, but before we jump all over Serena and call for harsh consequences, let's think about how these outbursts are normally handled and not treat her differently. Why would you think this has anything to do with race? That's the problem, seeing a racial problem where there is none. Jeez.
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HoyaNyr320
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Sept 16, 2009 8:43:35 GMT -5
First of all, what does any of this have to do with Attorney General Eric Holder? Are you TRYING to make this about race? It was a joke. Lighten up Francis. Still haven't gotten an answer about how this can possibly relate to Eric Holder. Who's a bully and a clown again?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Sept 16, 2009 9:12:58 GMT -5
It was a poorly made joke about the willy/nilly approach Mr. Holder has taken on certain matters depending upon the victim/perpetrator.
What I found most striking about this entire thread is how quickly many wish to draw equivalence between Ms. Williams' actions and those of John McEnroe or even more recently Roger Federer. To be sure, McEnroe was often boorish and crude, but never threatened physical harm to an official.
There is no equivalence. Ms. Williams acted the part of a bully and a clown and still whines about the "bad call" or "how can they keep calling this on me at big spots." She is working the victim angle a lot better than she worked her racket against Kim Clijsters who was kicking her ass with or without that call.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 16, 2009 10:22:51 GMT -5
First of all, what does any of this have to do with Attorney General Eric Holder? Are you TRYING to make this about race? It was a joke. Lighten up Francis. Still haven't gotten an answer about how this can possibly relate to Eric Holder. Who's a bully and a clown again? He's the attorney general. You know, the guy in charge of the Department of Justice. Maybe you were gone the day they taught that in third grade (or maybe you never made it to the third grade).
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Sept 16, 2009 10:26:30 GMT -5
[He's the attorney general. You know, the guy in charge of the Department of Justice. Maybe you were gone the day they taught that in third grade (or maybe you never made it to the third grade). [/quote]
And he's doing a very fine job of it. Really, he's terrific.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Sept 16, 2009 11:16:16 GMT -5
I certainly have no interest in getting in the middle of you two's thoughtful discussion on appointed government positions. So I will steer clear of that "interesting" debate.
As for Williams and the level of fervor in response to her tirade: I think maybe there is a degree of elitism. By this I mean that rightly or wrongly, tennis is thought of as different -- superior, in some minds -- to basketball, football etc... In much the same way that some sort of threatened confrontation on the golf course would be viewed entirely differently than one on the hardwoods or the diamond. I understand Boz's argument about "heat of the moment," and I also understand the argument against such a "petty" or even "trivial" call (foot fault) at such a crucial point in the match. Do I agree with those arguments? I'm not sure. But my point is that there is a degree of respect for the sport that tennis and golf have that doesn't allow them to accept things that are now viewed as "part of the game" in most other sports. To the tennis purist -- if there is one -- he is rightfully appalled at such an egregious afront on the sport. Again, I'm not condoning such a view, but I do understand it.
As for comparisons to McEnroe, I don't think they are really fair. But as to the response both of their actions elicited, there is a fair comparison. In much the same way, some are very hesitant to accept Serena's actions/words for fear of almost a moral depreciation of the game, so were McEnroe's actions viewed.
That being said, the part that sticks out in my mind, was how often Johnny Mac was right when he argued. As we all know, they didn't use instant replay back then, much less the new 3-D zooming in version we have now. Still, they did have an assortment of cameras all around the court. And I specifically remember noticing that what really got Mac Editeded off, was when the line judges screwed up the calls. Again, were his boisterous, verbal responses justified? Probably not. And in this regard, I can see the parallel to Serena's tirade. But in my opinion, there is still a drastic difference between telling someone they are F***ing blind and in telling them you are going to shove this F***ing ball down their F***ing throat.
Lastly, if you want to compare Serena to a tennis star from yesteryear, I would suggest Ille Nastase. He pushed the envelope a bit more. I remember the bleeping out of several of his "disputes." Admittedly, I do remember finding him somewhat amusing. Does that make me some sort of racist or bigot?
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HoyaNyr320
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Sept 16, 2009 14:02:22 GMT -5
He's the attorney general. You know, the guy in charge of the Department of Justice. Maybe you were gone the day they taught that in third grade (or maybe you never made it to the third grade). And the Attorney General is the chief law enforcement official of the United States. As such, he only investigates crimes committed against the United States or its laws. I fail to see what the Attorney General has to do with a bad call by a line judge at the U.S. Open or why his name should be a title of a thread about Serena Williams behaving badly. Before you make an ad hominem attack about one's education, you might want to take just a second to understand the argument being made by that person. Also, since most of us are Georgetown Alums - I am and I'm assuming you are - its rather low to criticize another poster's education.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 16, 2009 19:28:58 GMT -5
He's the attorney general. You know, the guy in charge of the Department of Justice. Maybe you were gone the day they taught that in third grade (or maybe you never made it to the third grade). And the Attorney General is the chief law enforcement official of the United States. As such, he only investigates crimes committed against the United States or its laws. I fail to see what the Attorney General has to do with a bad call by a line judge at the U.S. Open or why his name should be a title of a thread about Serena Williams behaving badly. That's why it's a joke. One could choose the Queens County Prosecutor, or the New York AG, or the US Attorney for Southern New York -- all would be "applicable." However, I doubt more than 5% of the people on here know any of their names. Lighten up. And again, if you can't follow that reasoning, I really do question your education/intelligence.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Sept 16, 2009 19:36:55 GMT -5
Stop playing the innocent fool. You know perfectly well what "depending upon the victim/perpetrator" means.
If Serena Williams was white, "Eric Holder" would not be the title of this thread.
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HoyaNyr320
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Sept 16, 2009 23:25:21 GMT -5
Stop playing the innocent fool. You know perfectly well what "depending upon the victim/perpetrator" means. If Serena Williams was white, "Eric Holder" would not be the title of this thread. I just want to say that I question Elvado and kchoya's education/intelligence if they fail to understand this reasoning.
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Post by washingtonhoya on Sept 17, 2009 0:31:55 GMT -5
Stop playing the innocent fool. You know perfectly well what "depending upon the victim/perpetrator" means. If Serena Williams was white, "Eric Holder" would not be the title of this thread. I just want to say that I question Elvado and kchoya's education/intelligence if they fail to understand this reasoning. I'm really happy for you all, and I'mma let you finish, but "JTIII is My Homeboy" was one of the best pointless Hoyatalk racism arguments of all time. Of all time.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 17, 2009 9:12:55 GMT -5
Stop playing the innocent fool. You know perfectly well what "depending upon the victim/perpetrator" means. If Serena Williams was white, "Eric Holder" would not be the title of this thread. Then what would the title be?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Sept 17, 2009 9:26:51 GMT -5
Stop playing the innocent fool. You know perfectly well what "depending upon the victim/perpetrator" means. If Serena Williams was white, "Eric Holder" would not be the title of this thread. I just want to say that I question Elvado and kchoya's education/intelligence if they fail to understand this reasoning. I understand your reasoning completely and agree with it. I apologize for a poor attempt at humor. However, as many will jump on me for, race-baiting is a two-way street and I for one am sick of it on both sides. Hence, my poor attempt at a joke that has taken up much too much of everyone's time.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Sept 17, 2009 10:22:51 GMT -5
Stop playing the innocent fool. You know perfectly well what "depending upon the victim/perpetrator" means. If Serena Williams was white, "Eric Holder" would not be the title of this thread. The AG has earned himself a reputation for the arbitrary and capricious decisions he's recently made regarding several high profile federal investigations. New inquisitions against CIA employees, for example, versus the dismissed cases against the New Black Panthers or Gov. Bill Richardson. It's Holder's perceived lack of judgment in exercising his prosecutor's discretion that's mildly humorous here, not his skin color.
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