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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jul 22, 2009 21:51:39 GMT -5
Peter Singer: Why We Must Ration Health Care (NYT Mag) www.nytimes.com/2009/07/19/magazine/19healthcare-t.html_________ Also, can't believe nobody has pointed out yet that very few American doctors are members of the AMA. Yes, AMA support is important, but by no means does it suggest doctors (generally speaking) are in favor of this plan.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 24, 2009 14:33:17 GMT -5
Negotiations between Waxman and Blue Dogs have apparently hit the iceberg, with the result that Waxman and pro-reform members may bring the bill to the floor without a markup in Energy & Commerce.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Jul 24, 2009 14:57:24 GMT -5
IMHO, Steny (a Blue Dog himself) is never gonna let that happen.
BTW, AMA represents about 20% of U.S. physicians. About 250K of 1.2 M are members, IIRC. Others are just members of their state and/or specialty society, whose interests are aligned or opposed to AMA, depending on the issue.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jul 28, 2009 10:04:08 GMT -5
Nice to see John Conyers questioning the need to actually read the bill if it's 1,000 pages long. Sadly, his complete abdication of his obligation to his constituents will go unquestioned and without consequence.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 28, 2009 15:27:51 GMT -5
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Aug 5, 2009 12:50:11 GMT -5
I would like to go on record as saying that this heath care bill sucks. It will raise costs dramatically and it will adversely affect care. Uh-oh....Now, I've gone and done it. One of you is going to report me to the White House.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Aug 5, 2009 12:59:47 GMT -5
I would like to go on record as saying that this heath care bill sucks. It will raise costs dramatically and it will adversely affect care. Uh-oh....Now, I've gone and done it. One of you is going to report me to the White House. Already done, Boz. You should be repatriated to a FEMA death camp any day now. Comrade Lenin (yes, he's still alive) has been personally informed, and is pleased. Soon, our 48 year plot to destroy America will come to fruition!
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Aug 5, 2009 14:40:22 GMT -5
Yeah, you better come for me soon. If you give me enough time to go buy a pickup truck, you can rest assured...I will not be coming quietly.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Aug 6, 2009 11:15:24 GMT -5
Wow. Hadn't seen that sweet deal you can get there, Boz. I was trying to come up with a joke but I am pretty much at a loss for words. Helluva country.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 9:39:18 GMT -5
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 7, 2009 10:28:08 GMT -5
Here's his thesis: "But there is no credible way to look at what has been proposed by the president or any congressional committee and conclude that these will result in a government takeover of the health-care system." That may be true if you believe Obama and the Dems only want to do what is contained in wha tis being proposed - that they only want to take one step and will not work to change the system any more after this year. Based on Obama's action, his beliefs, and even his words in the past that he favored a one-payer system, I don't think that's the case at all. That's why a lot of people are afraid, and think the Dems are tryign to move towards a government takeover of the health-care system.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 11:03:40 GMT -5
Here's his thesis: "But there is no credible way to look at what has been proposed by the president or any congressional committee and conclude that these will result in a government takeover of the health-care system." That may be true if you believe Obama and the Dems only want to do what is contained in wha tis being proposed - that they only want to take one step and will not work to change the system any more after this year. Based on Obama's action, his beliefs, and even his words in the past that he favored a one-payer system, I don't think that's the case at all. That's why a lot of people are afraid, and think the Dems are tryign to move towards a government takeover of the health-care system. Even if you're right that Obama wants a full government takeover of health care, no Congress (not even the current heavily Democratic version) could ever come close to passing that - so the slippery slope argument is a pretty flimsy one in the end.
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 7, 2009 11:20:16 GMT -5
You could have a 90-10 Democratic Senate and 90% Democratic House and GIGAFAN as President and single payer still would not be on the table.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Aug 7, 2009 11:56:49 GMT -5
Here's his thesis: "But there is no credible way to look at what has been proposed by the president or any congressional committee and conclude that these will result in a government takeover of the health-care system." That may be true if you believe Obama and the Dems only want to do what is contained in wha tis being proposed - that they only want to take one step and will not work to change the system any more after this year. Based on Obama's action, his beliefs, and even his words in the past that he favored a one-payer system, I don't think that's the case at all. That's why a lot of people are afraid, and think the Dems are tryign to move towards a government takeover of the health-care system. You need to read more single payer advocates. They certainly don't see the current legislation leading to single payer, and aren't very happy with Obama, even though he never promised single payer during the campaign. All you'd need to do to create single payer in this country is expand Medicare to everyone. Obviously, that's not on the table currently.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 7, 2009 12:22:09 GMT -5
You could have a 90-10 Democratic Senate and 90% Democratic House and GIGAFAN as President and single payer still would not be on the table. Never thought the government would own 2/3 of General Motors.... Never thought the government would own parts of Wall Street banks and dictate how much their employees could make...
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Aug 7, 2009 12:34:50 GMT -5
You can say it could never happen, and you may or may not be right.
But having Barney Frank, among others, out there saying "this is the way we get to single-payer" doesn't help alleviate the concerns of those who are worried about that eventuality.
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 7, 2009 12:40:39 GMT -5
But having Barney Frank, among others, out there saying "this is the way we get to single-payer" doesn't help alleviate the concerns of those who are worried about that eventuality. Probably not, but it doesn't make any sense to worry about Republicans killing Medicare even though you know there is a fringe that would love to do so. By the way, I went to a Barney Frank town hall in February (which was mostly on the financial crisis) - people had some pretty strong criticisms, but it was orderly and civil. I don't think I'd go if it were today.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Aug 7, 2009 18:19:18 GMT -5
You could have a 90-10 Democratic Senate and 90% Democratic House and GIGAFAN as President and single payer still would not be on the table. Never thought the government would own 2/3 of General Motors.... Never thought the government would own parts of Wall Street banks and dictate how much their employees could make... Big problem with this thinking kc. The government intervened in these two industries because they were failing. It wasn't a policy discussion about what is and is not a public good. Coincidentally of course these industries are two huge donors located in two blue states. But if you've used FedEx or attended a Jesuit high school or joined a country club, you know many industries have a private and public option and haven't been absorbed into the government in full. Bottom line, there's a 1400-page bill on the table that could determine the trajectory of the US economy and the future of health care in America. The Republicans have chosen to argue against a concept NOT IN THAT BILL. It's moronic in my mind especially when there are so many good arguments to be had against the concept as it exists.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Aug 7, 2009 18:40:33 GMT -5
Here's Sarah Palin's comment :http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0809/Palin_calls_Dems_healthcare_plan_evil_cites_threat_to_Trig.html?showall
Pay close attention to the link to Rep. Michelle Bachman's speech on the floor of the House concerning views/comments held by Rahm Emmanuel's brother and another person both of whom are advisors to the President. It would be nice if any comments concern the content of Palin's and Bachman's words rather than the usual trashing of the messenger.
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 7, 2009 18:58:19 GMT -5
Ignoring the Palin/Bachmann craziness ("Obama's gonna kill my Down Syndrome baby with his DEATH PANELS!") for a second, GIGA - do you in any way see the public option as a way of getting to single payer? I think you're the basically target audience of that Barney Frank clip as a single payer advocate.
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