RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Apr 28, 2009 0:11:48 GMT -5
Old Man Yells at Refs: Jerry Sloan has left the building.
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vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by vcjack on Apr 28, 2009 8:08:50 GMT -5
Old Man Yells at Refs: Jerry Sloan has left the building. He did kinda have a point though. I'd venture to say that them Laker boys benefited from some preferential officiating. [ducks]
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyarooter on Apr 28, 2009 11:59:50 GMT -5
I wonder how that "performance" by the Hornets last night ranks among the worst playoff showings in NBA history. This is obviously subjective, but it's hard to imagine that not being in the bottom three...or one. Oh, and yes, there is no question that the Lakers benefitted from home town officiating. How else could they have shot more free throws than the Jazz for the first time in the series?
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hifigator on Apr 28, 2009 12:15:40 GMT -5
The Lakers were getting ridiculous calls. I don't care what the overall numbers were. I have no dog in that fight, and honestly don't really like either team. In general, in those situations, I root for whomever is more likely to give me a full 7 game series by winning the game I am watching. That being said, I just couldn't believe the home cooking calls the Lakers were getting in Salt Lake. I don't think it "caused" the outcome, but it certainly made it awfully difficult for the Jazz.
Seondly, I would say the exact same thing about the Heat-Hawks game last night, except the home team got a bunch of phantom calls, like you would expect. The main key there was that they were calling a bunch of questionable and ticky-tack fouls away from the ball but not calling some serious contact inside. But there's a reason why that game wasn't over until well after the Laker game started. Mr. Ref, please control Mr. Whistle.
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kghoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by kghoya on Apr 28, 2009 22:22:55 GMT -5
i feel dirty having rooted for ben gordon tonight
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Apr 28, 2009 23:23:28 GMT -5
Hornets have a match of being most GUTLESS--welcome to the club BRAD MILLER.
It's never a shame to miss a shot/free throws. It's beyond cowardly to be AFRAID to take them and he wanted no part of that. He got whacked in face--but a competitor isn't look for the excuse or out--which Miller was--you step up bang down the free throws and then go to bench. If you miss--at least get your butt to line and give yourself and team a concentrated effort. That was pathetic and one of the most GUTLESS displays I've ever watched.
As for Hornets--"Chris Paul is one of the great leaders WE have in the league". I think I NEVER want to hear that phrase uttered again after that debacle on Monday night. Again-you don't have to win a game-but to get beat by 58 points--at home in a potential series tying game--that just speaks to Paul's leadership.
As for that phrase the announcers use--guys like Tim Legler especially--it's embarrassing. When I think of the NBA--Tim Legler always comes to mind. Sure--and so does Eddie House's kid--who still needs to have the snot kicked out of him.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Apr 30, 2009 23:51:03 GMT -5
How awesome is it that McGrady is out and Rockets win a Playoff Series?
Add to this--Grant Hill and the demise of Phoenix--and we've got 2 team killers who eclipse anything that Boston Bill Simmons loves to talk against Patrick Ewing.
Philly with a gutless showing and just need to quit pretending that Andre Iguodala is anything more then a nice complimentary/role player. They act like he's a "star" and he's nowhere near that level of talent.
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kghoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by kghoya on May 1, 2009 7:36:21 GMT -5
How awesome is it that McGrady is out and Rockets win a Playoff Series? thats the first thing i thought of
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hifigator on May 1, 2009 10:02:52 GMT -5
I'm acually enjoying the playoffs overall, more than any year in quite a while. I enjoyed the Heat's run, but that was because of Udonis and Zo, but this year there is enough intrigue and interesting stories to entertain in numerous of the series.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyarooter on May 1, 2009 11:45:50 GMT -5
How awesome is it that McGrady is out and Rockets win a Playoff Series? Add to this--Grant Hill and the demise of Phoenix--and we've got 2 team killers who eclipse anything that Boston Bill Simmons loves to talk against Patrick Ewing. Philly with a gutless showing and just need to quit pretending that Andre Iguodala is anything more then a nice complimentary/role player. They act like he's a "star" and he's nowhere near that level of talent. Wait, now. You really can't pin the Suns' problems on Grant Hill. I think they got more from him than they expected. The Suns' problems go much higher - try the owner.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on May 1, 2009 13:47:53 GMT -5
How awesome is it that McGrady is out and Rockets win a Playoff Series? Add to this--Grant Hill and the demise of Phoenix--and we've got 2 team killers who eclipse anything that Boston Bill Simmons loves to talk against Patrick Ewing. Philly with a gutless showing and just need to quit pretending that Andre Iguodala is anything more then a nice complimentary/role player. They act like he's a "star" and he's nowhere near that level of talent. Wait, now. You really can't pin the Suns' problems on Grant Hill. I think they got more from him than they expected. The Suns' problems go much higher - try the owner. Here's my point on the overrated stiff known as Grant Hill: 1. In Detroit, billed "next big thing" and results were......no playoff wins--and that included 2 defeats to Atlanta in First Round--which at the time was an embarrassment. Happy for Deke--but Pistons with a "great player" should've advanced if Hill was worth anything. 2. He leaves Detroit for Orlando--to "pair with T-Mac" and that resulted in failure--failure of him playing most of the time and failure of him or McGrady getting past 1st Round. 3. Leaves for Phoenix and a team that was a contender goes out in 1st Round and then doesn't make postseason--the year he finally plays all 82 games. So that is my point about this guy--if you are going to CREATE a theory of a team/organization being better without him, then at least have MERIT. Since Hill departed Detroit, they went to 6 straight Eastern Conference Finals, 2 NBA Finals, and have a Championship. Hill and McGrady leave Orlando--and they have advanced in postseason with 2 series wins. Phoenix was better without Hill. Houston advances without McGrady. Seems to have merit.
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hifigator on May 1, 2009 16:12:43 GMT -5
I can't argue with you logic RDF.
The oddity however, is from everything I hear and read, Hill is a good guy. He isn't a devisive team ember and is a positive in the locker room. Why he can somehow be .... to steal the term from the movie ... the "cooler" really eludes me.
As for T-Mac, he certainly had a bit of that prima dona attitude in him when he was down here in Orlando, but again, I don't see him ... or his previous teams rather ... as being a case of addition by subtraction. You could say that the Giants got better without Shockey. Some say that the Cowboys benefitted by addition by subtraction with TO leaving for Buffalo, and there are certainly numerous, other cases.
As much as I hate to put Grant Hill in that boat -- even though he went to Duke -- I still can't really argue that for whatever reason the proof has been in the pudding.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyarooter on May 1, 2009 20:53:04 GMT -5
I don't dispute that Hill may have been overrated during his prime. I think, though, that everyone, including Hill, recognizes that his prime is well behind him. He was a decent complimentary player with the Suns - nothing more, nothing less, and I don't think anyone expected anything more than that from him. So I think it's beating a dead horse to cast any blame on Hill for Phoenix's failures. Hill is no more to blame than Matt Barnes.
McGrady - well, that's a different story.
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FLHoya
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Proud Member of Generation Burton
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Post by FLHoya on May 3, 2009 17:46:52 GMT -5
Well, we did it folks...Hawks-Heat baby!! The anti-Bulls-Celtics. Seven games. 13 technical fouls, a Flagrant 1 and a Flagrant 2. No single digits margin of victory. No lead changes after the first quarter. What's weird though is as much as the "coin flip" description was brought out, I picked the winner of all seven games, including the Game 6 I went to on Friday night (Thanks J-Smoove! I instantly regretted that ticket purchase when you went for that dunk. P.S. Thanks for making...ummm, all but one of them today.) Really bizarre series that may go down as the least memorable seven game series in some time, except for me and the other 6 Hawks fans. Now how bout an equally un-memorable five game series!
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on May 4, 2009 12:12:58 GMT -5
Speaking of flagrants, what does everyone think of the flagrant 2 on Haslem? I didn't think it warranted a 2 at all, and I honestly not saying it because Udonis is a former Gator. I was rooting strongly for the Hawks anyway. Also, I was driving back from Tampa and listening to the game on the radio, so I didn't see much of it. But at least from the radio coverage, it sounded like a really "chippy" game with even more emotion than you might expect. Obviously at this point in the season, you pretty much lay it all on the line, but again, at least from hearing just radio, it sounded like there was almost always a fight about to break out.
Did those of you who watched the game get that same kind of feeling?
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RDF
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Post by RDF on May 4, 2009 14:52:29 GMT -5
Haslem's foul was same as Noah on Rondo--and both were fouls that looked worse then they were. Difference was--the horrible and crooked Bennett Salvatore was working the Hawks-Heat game and the Celtics-Bulls series had good officials in Game 7.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on May 4, 2009 15:23:13 GMT -5
Haslem's foul was same as Noah on Rondo--and both were fouls that looked worse then they were. Difference was--the horrible and crooked Bennett Salvatore was working the Hawks-Heat game and the Celtics-Bulls series had good officials in Game 7. Really the entire Hawks-Heat series was characterized by screwy officiating...every game except Game 7 seemingly had multiple players picking up 2 fouls within the first few minutes, and the whistles were widely inconsistent throughout--and this is even granting the NBA "star player exception" for Wade. There were 13 technicals in the series, a boatload of player confrontations, and the only notable story to emerge from the series was the faux controversy over Josh Smith's between the legs windmill dunk attempt at the end of Game 5. Given the above, aside from the obvious poor officiating explanation, IMO the officials overcompensated to prevent the game from degenerating into an ugly confrontation. This happened with about 5 minutes to go in a Game 7 blowout in a series that had been chippy throughout. Moments before, Zaza Pachulia was T'd up essentially for smacking a dude's butt on the follow through after he was fouled. In Game 5, Wade's bogus Flagrant-1 for fouling Mo Evans on a breakaway came moments after the officials had assessed four Techs for a post-foul skirmish on the other end...and two of them (Wade and Solomon Jones) hadn't really done much IMO to warrant it (at least Smith and Jamaal Magloire shoved each other). Basically long story short--the NBA didn't need this to be another Heat-Knicks thing, which is too bad b/c that would have at least made the series watchable.
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MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on May 5, 2009 8:05:21 GMT -5
Wait, now. You really can't pin the Suns' problems on Grant Hill. I think they got more from him than they expected. The Suns' problems go much higher - try the owner. Here's my point on the overrated stiff known as Grant Hill: 1. In Detroit, billed "next big thing" and results were......no playoff wins--and that included 2 defeats to Atlanta in First Round--which at the time was an embarrassment. Happy for Deke--but Pistons with a "great player" should've advanced if Hill was worth anything. 2. He leaves Detroit for Orlando--to "pair with T-Mac" and that resulted in failure--failure of him playing most of the time and failure of him or McGrady getting past 1st Round. 3. Leaves for Phoenix and a team that was a contender goes out in 1st Round and then doesn't make postseason--the year he finally plays all 82 games. So that is my point about this guy--if you are going to CREATE a theory of a team/organization being better without him, then at least have MERIT. Since Hill departed Detroit, they went to 6 straight Eastern Conference Finals, 2 NBA Finals, and have a Championship. Hill and McGrady leave Orlando--and they have advanced in postseason with 2 series wins. Phoenix was better without Hill. Houston advances without McGrady. Seems to have merit. Co-sign.
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hifigator on May 5, 2009 10:23:09 GMT -5
Haslem's foul was same as Noah on Rondo--and both were fouls that looked worse then they were. Difference was--the horrible and crooked Bennett Salvatore was working the Hawks-Heat game and the Celtics-Bulls series had good officials in Game 7. Really the entire Hawks-Heat series was characterized by screwy officiating...every game except Game 7 seemingly had multiple players picking up 2 fouls within the first few minutes, and the whistles were widely inconsistent throughout--and this is even granting the NBA "star player exception" for Wade. There were 13 technicals in the series, a boatload of player confrontations, and the only notable story to emerge from the series was the faux controversy over Josh Smith's between the legs windmill dunk attempt at the end of Game 5. Given the above, aside from the obvious poor officiating explanation, IMO the officials overcompensated to prevent the game from degenerating into an ugly confrontation. This happened with about 5 minutes to go in a Game 7 blowout in a series that had been chippy throughout. Moments before, Zaza Pachulia was T'd up essentially for smacking a dude's butt on the follow through after he was fouled. In Game 5, Wade's bogus Flagrant-1 for fouling Mo Evans on a breakaway came moments after the officials had assessed four Techs for a post-foul skirmish on the other end...and two of them (Wade and Solomon Jones) hadn't really done much IMO to warrant it (at least Smith and Jamaal Magloire shoved each other). Basically long story short--the NBA didn't need this to be another Heat-Knicks thing, which is too bad b/c that would have at least made the series watchable. I totally agree with respect to the entire series. I'm not sure if it was Game 1 or Game 2, (1 I think), but Horford picked up two very questionable calls in the first 3 minutes and had to sit. Another Hawk player picked up 2 quick ones as well. Then they decided to let them play. There was a ton of banging inside withouth hardly any whistles. Then in the second half, the refs decided they had to get involved and started calling ridiculous ticky tack crap on the perimeter. I think most of us prefer to let the players play and decide the game themselves, but regardless, the main thing we, and all the players would ask for is consistency. We certainly didn't see that.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on May 5, 2009 10:30:49 GMT -5
HiFiGator wrote:
As for T-Mac, he certainly had a bit of that prima dona attitude in him when he was down here in Orlando, but again, I don't see him ... or his previous teams rather ... as being a case of addition by subtraction. You could say that the Giants got better without Shockey. Some say that the Cowboys benefitted by addition by subtraction with TO leaving for Buffalo, and there are certainly numerous, other cases.
Actually, for what it's worth, Colin Cowherd said the opposite this morning and in fact basically said what RDF said earlier. He likened T-Mac to Damon Stoudamire and Stephon Marbury types of players, as tremendously talented and gifted, but that they don't "translate to 'w's.'" His point was that the truly great players, that do translate to W's don't bounce around from team to team, especially in their prime. And that when you do see great players bouncing from team to team, there's usually a reason for it. Orlando traded T-Mac, and in the long run, it was good for Orlando. He did say that Shaq was a possible exception, but that it was different. Shaw wasn't traded, he just finished out his contract in Orlando and then went to LA. Orlando wanted to keep him. Then later, LA just couldn't afford Shaq and Kobe. There's certainly some merit to that. He then also said that the Rockets are what they are today, because they don't have T-Mac. In different words, that's basically what RDF was saying.
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