Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Oct 30, 2009 14:32:55 GMT -5
All day long, people on the air down here have been complaining about the call on the ball Ryan Howard "caught." While I understand the issue with a blown call, all of those clamoring for instant replay seem to be missing the point. In that case, the baserunner has to go on SOMETHING. In this case, he can only go on what he initially thinks and then what the umpire calls. Hypothetically, if there was replay, which showed that the call on the field of a catch was wrong, and in fact he scooped it, then what? Are we to presume that Howard would have turned the 3-6-3 double play? Are we to presume that he would have taken two quick steps to step on first and then caught the runner either in a 3-6 double play or maybe caught him in a rundown? It's just no solution, either way. This doesn't even make the top four bad calls the Yankees have been involved in this postseason, and probably doesn't make top ten overall. Worse calls IMO include: Cano/Posada (quite possibly the worst call in the history of baseball since no one was moving and somehow both the home and left field umps missed this too), Swisher at second, Swisher at third (McClelland wasn't even looking!), Cuzzi down the left field line, Howie Kendrick at first, Howie Kendrick at first again, Chase Utley (two missed calls on one play!) and that's just off the top of my head.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Oct 31, 2009 9:24:50 GMT -5
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 31, 2009 10:10:22 GMT -5
I don't know that we'll ever see a system calling balls and strikes. The umpire's union will never go for that, for one thing. I just wish that instant replay had been in place for the Cardinal - Royal series so Don Denkinger's crappy call on Jorge Orta could have been overruled. The umpires union isn't going to stop anyone. They have no power.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Nov 1, 2009 20:01:48 GMT -5
This pregame cross promotion with Avatar is aggressively stupid
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 2, 2009 11:12:17 GMT -5
This pregame cross promotion with Avatar is aggressively stupid Maybe Brad Lidge could hook himself up to some avatar that doesn't blow games.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Nov 2, 2009 18:08:18 GMT -5
Dan, as a boy growing up rooting for the Yankees ('50-'64) and Celtics,('56-'66), I do not understand this kind of suffering.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Nov 2, 2009 21:02:25 GMT -5
Nevada, that's pretty bold of you to acknowledge rooting for Devil Team I and Devil Team II.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Nov 3, 2009 12:04:41 GMT -5
All day long, people on the air down here have been complaining about the call on the ball Ryan Howard "caught." While I understand the issue with a blown call, all of those clamoring for instant replay seem to be missing the point. In that case, the baserunner has to go on SOMETHING. In this case, he can only go on what he initially thinks and then what the umpire calls. Hypothetically, if there was replay, which showed that the call on the field of a catch was wrong, and in fact he scooped it, then what? Are we to presume that Howard would have turned the 3-6-3 double play? Are we to presume that he would have taken two quick steps to step on first and then caught the runner either in a 3-6 double play or maybe caught him in a rundown? It's just no solution, either way. This doesn't even make the top four bad calls the Yankees have been involved in this postseason, and probably doesn't make top ten overall. Worse calls IMO include: Cano/Posada (quite possibly the worst call in the history of baseball since no one was moving and somehow both the home and left field umps missed this too), Swisher at second, Swisher at third (McClelland wasn't even looking!), Cuzzi down the left field line, Howie Kendrick at first, Howie Kendrick at first again, Chase Utley (two missed calls on one play!) and that's just off the top of my head. I second the notion that the blown Cano/Posado call at third was the worst call ever. Definitely the worst in my lifetime. As an Angel fan, it hurts even worse. Heads up play by Napoli, though.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Nov 3, 2009 12:51:55 GMT -5
This doesn't even make the top four bad calls the Yankees have been involved in this postseason, and probably doesn't make top ten overall. Worse calls IMO include: Cano/Posada (quite possibly the worst call in the history of baseball since no one was moving and somehow both the home and left field umps missed this too), Swisher at second, Swisher at third (McClelland wasn't even looking!), Cuzzi down the left field line, Howie Kendrick at first, Howie Kendrick at first again, Chase Utley (two missed calls on one play!) and that's just off the top of my head. I second the notion that the blown Cano/Posado call at third was the worst call ever. Definitely the worst in my lifetime. As an Angel fan, it hurts even worse. Heads up play by Napoli, though. The worst call ever? Get a GRIP. Try the call that cost the Cardinals a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP and it wasn't even close call. Maybe it was the worst call against the Angels in their history but not "worst call ever". Besides--there was ample time to win that game/series, where the Cardinals would've won a championship if not for that blown call.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 3, 2009 12:59:01 GMT -5
I second the notion that the blown Cano/Posado call at third was the worst call ever. Definitely the worst in my lifetime. As an Angel fan, it hurts even worse. Heads up play by Napoli, though. The worst call ever? Get a GRIP. Try the call that cost the Cardinals a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP and it wasn't even close call. Maybe it was the worst call against the Angels in their history but not "worst call ever". Besides--there was ample time to win that game/series, where the Cardinals would've won a championship if not for that blown call. Who says the Cards would have won the Series but for that call?
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Nov 3, 2009 13:21:29 GMT -5
The worst call ever? Get a GRIP. Try the call that cost the Cardinals a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP and it wasn't even close call. Maybe it was the worst call against the Angels in their history but not "worst call ever". Besides--there was ample time to win that game/series, where the Cardinals would've won a championship if not for that blown call. Who says the Cards would have won the Series but for that call? Yeah, that was only the first out of the inning. If you want to talk about a single incorrect call that cost a team a championship, look at the 2003 Fiesta Bowl.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Nov 3, 2009 13:27:29 GMT -5
The worst call ever? Get a GRIP. Try the call that cost the Cardinals a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP and it wasn't even close call. Maybe it was the worst call against the Angels in their history but not "worst call ever". Besides--there was ample time to win that game/series, where the Cardinals would've won a championship if not for that blown call. Who says the Cards would have won the Series but for that call? It would've been the 3rd out in a clinching game. Pretty hard to lose that series if that call is made. Did Cardinals not get 2 outs prior to KC scoring any runs? If Orta is ruled out--then that is 3 outs--game/series over.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Nov 3, 2009 13:33:37 GMT -5
Who says the Cards would have won the Series but for that call? It would've been the 3rd out in a clinching game. Pretty hard to lose that series if that call is made. Did Cardinals not get 2 outs prior to KC scoring any runs? If Orta is ruled out--then that is 3 outs--game/series over. Nope, he missed the call on the lead off batter in the 9th inning.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Nov 3, 2009 13:57:08 GMT -5
It would've been the 3rd out in a clinching game. Pretty hard to lose that series if that call is made. Did Cardinals not get 2 outs prior to KC scoring any runs? If Orta is ruled out--then that is 3 outs--game/series over. Nope, he missed the call on the lead off batter in the 9th inning. How many outs were there before Orta scored? If there is 2--then it cost them a game because he's 3rd out on an EASY CALL that was missed.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Nov 3, 2009 14:19:26 GMT -5
9797 wrote:
Yeah, that was only the first out of the inning. If you want to talk about a single incorrect call that cost a team a championship, look at the 2003 Fiesta Bowl.
I don't understand why people always bring that call up. Sure it was questionable, but it was the type of questionable call that happens in every game. Some are called and some aren't, but arguably, every call of that sort could have gone the other way. The part that made it so tough to take was the timing. Obviously, if they don't call it, then Miami wins the title. I understand that. But the call itself wasn't atrocious or egregiously bad. Also, people like to point out that the closer ref didn't call it, but that someone with a "worse" view did. But actually, the replay showed that he probably had the better angle. Again, I'm not saying it was an obvious call, just that it wasn't some obviously bad call.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 3, 2009 15:11:21 GMT -5
Nope, he missed the call on the lead off batter in the 9th inning. How many outs were there before Orta scored? If there is 2--then it cost them a game because he's 3rd out on an EASY CALL that was missed. hoya9797 is correct. Orta led off. Balboni singled and Orta went to second. Jim Sundberg tried to sacrifice the runners over, but Orta was thrown out at third. Then Porter's passed ball allowed the runners to move up to second and third. Hal McRae was intentionally walked. Then Dane Iorg came up and the rest is history. ;D ;D ;D Also, don't forget that Balboni hit a towering pop foul in front of the Royals dugout that dropped harmlessly between Porter and Jack Clark. So between that and the passed ball, it's not like the Cardinals didn't contribute to their collapse. Plus they had game 7 the next night, but choked that away.
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Nov 3, 2009 19:06:59 GMT -5
Nope, he missed the call on the lead off batter in the 9th inning. How many outs were there before Orta scored? If there is 2--then it cost them a game because he's 3rd out on an EASY CALL that was missed. Well this would of course suggest that everything would have unfolded exactly as it did without the call as it did with the call, which is utterly ridiculous. Is it likely they would have recorded the final two outs? Certainly. Guaranteed? No. Also, my point wasn't that it was the most impactful bad call ever. By worst, I meant it was the easiest call that I could remember that I had seen missed at the professional or collegiate level. Calls get missed at first all the time (e.g. Chase Utley's off-the-leg single). I've refereed at very, very low levels, and I understand that when things are moving it's sometimes difficult to get calls right. When was the last time you saw a runner motionless standing a foot off the base get tagged with the baseball and get called safe?
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Nov 3, 2009 22:12:35 GMT -5
Orta was out. Everyone watching television and at the stadium knew it. Now of course there is no guarantee on how the inning would have played out, but I'd be willing to take my chances on the Cardinals retiring the Royals without giving up a run. The Cardinals were robbed. That's my position and I'm sticking to it (and I think I even referenced it earlier in this thread). Don Denkinger = (and I don't mean cool).
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Nov 3, 2009 22:21:56 GMT -5
How many outs were there before Orta scored? If there is 2--then it cost them a game because he's 3rd out on an EASY CALL that was missed. Well this would of course suggest that everything would have unfolded exactly as it did without the call as it did with the call, which is utterly ridiculous. Is it likely they would have recorded the final two outs? Certainly. Guaranteed? No. Also, my point wasn't that it was the most impactful bad call ever. By worst, I meant it was the easiest call that I could remember that I had seen missed at the professional or collegiate level. Calls get missed at first all the time (e.g. Chase Utley's off-the-leg single). I've refereed at very, very low levels, and I understand that when things are moving it's sometimes difficult to get calls right. When was the last time you saw a runner motionless standing a foot off the base get tagged with the baseball and get called safe? as an outsider ... it sure looks like you are just trying to cover your [slang]donkey[/slang]
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 4, 2009 9:58:37 GMT -5
Moving along is anyone surprised that Brett "Beater" Myers would go after Cole Hamels? Hamels is a beeyotch and Myers only hits girls.
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