How Do You Explain The Early Season Big Wins?

[SirSaxa]

Feb 8, 2009 15:31:25 GMT -5 dungeon ball said:

Hate to admit it, but it's all my fault. I acquired a nice HDTV a day before the Duke game, and it's all been downhill since then. I think the thing is possessed, although the Steelers won the Superbowl when I was watching it.

I'll return it, and revert back to the 20-inch. Things will return to normal when I have to squint to figure out who is on the court.

Putting the TEAM first!
Way to go Dunkshot! Thanks.

[michaelgrahamfan]

Way to take one for the team!

[SirSaxa]

I don't see our wins as "Lucky" or an aberration.
This team was doing fine up until DUKE.

No reason we can't get back to playing MUCH better basketball.
As good as before? Maybe not. But a lot better than we've been playing.

Discounting our earlier success against UCONN, Cuse, PC, Memphis, UMCP is just trying to put the worst possible light on the situation.

I hope this team gets it turned around soon... I think that process has already started.

GO HOYAS!

[guru]

easy, at least for the UConn and Syracuse games - we came out on fire from three point range in both games, built up a big lead and maintained. It was a confidence thing. I think Memphis might have been our best game of the season - the kids played really tough. But that team has totally disappeared. The confidence of this group is shot and I would be very surprised if they can get it back. I wish I could be more positive, but I sensed after the Seton Hall/Cincy swoon that JT3 had lost this team, and I've seen nothing since then to dissuade that notion. In fact, it's simply gotten worse.

And I have to say, this is a totally foreign concept as a Hoya fan - to have a team that plays as if it doesn't care. Maybe the last games of the Esh regime were like that. But I don't remember any of Pops' teams that totally checked out the way this team seems to have checked out. I really hope I'm wrong about this, but the evidence points to a group that doesn't have much heart and isn't all that interested in finding it this season.

[guhoyasfan36]

It's the FLU!!!!!

[Nevada Hoya]

Feb 8, 2009 10:11:46 GMT -5 Eurostar said:

i think it was the Duke game. that game with all the tacky fouls, the T and the air of being fixed really took the wind out of our sails. i felt almost cynical after that game. how could we lose to a team that we were better than when we actually played well? it was like whatever we did would never be good enough because the outcome was predetermined.

i'm not giving an excuse, but its obvious that the game gave us a punch to the stomach that we never recovered from.

Yes, I believe I mentioned this before that I thought the Duke game got us out of sink after the phantom T. Whether it really affected the way we play or not, everything came crashing down after this point.

[paranoya]

Feb 8, 2009 18:09:22 GMT -5 guru said:

easy, at least for the UConn and Syracuse games - we came out on fire from three point range in both games, built up a big lead and maintained. It was a confidence thing. I think Memphis might have been our best game of the season - the kids played really tough. But that team has totally disappeared. The confidence of this group is shot and I would be very surprised if they can get it back. I wish I could be more positive, but I sensed after the Seton Hall/Cincy swoon that JT3 had lost this team, and I've seen nothing since then to dissuade that notion. In fact, it's simply gotten worse.

And I have to say, this is a totally foreign concept as a Hoya fan - to have a team that plays as if it doesn't care. Maybe the last games of the Esh regime were like that. But I don't remember any of Pops' teams that totally checked out the way this team seems to have checked out. I really hope I'm wrong about this, but the evidence points to a group that doesn't have much heart and isn't all that interested in finding it this season.

Well said.

Putting it into one word how we won those games: confidence.

This team currently has very little which leads to lack of trust in the system and ultimately each other.

[happyhoya1979]

I agree with Eurostar-the Duke game changed everything. Since that game we almost anticipate that things will go wrong, and that shots won't drop from either the field or the line.
I don't know how you cure this.

[Buckets]

Agree with guru and paranoya, confidence is the big issue. The Syracuse game we came out on fire and were able to really carry it throughout the game. The most obvious place to see the confidence is from the bench guys - Nikita came in and helped set a tone early on with the two treys and the diving play. Vaughn who normally plays timid came in and had a great game, and Clark played probably his best game of the season. I'm not really sure where this has gone since the Duke game. The team has no swagger at all and like everyone else I'm stumped as to how to fix it.

[happyhoya1979]

At the very top of Coach Wooden's pyramid of success is the word faith. All the other 15 elements which constitute success are topped off by faith (and patience) at the very top. After the Duke game, our guys faith in the basic fairness of the game was shattered and we have been unraveling in an inverse movement back down the elements since then. Poise and confidence on the next level have left us and we are losing the skill and team spirit blocks of the next lower run. We need to focus on getting back to where we were and having faith that the system does work for us and that we will overcome.

[hoya21]

I've seen all the games and the difference is 'speed and effort'. We were all out and in sync with UCONN and SU. We would come down, quick passes, inside and outside and fire up a three (and it went in)... Now we slowly bring it up the court, three passes on the top, look in side, and do something stupid.... Teams pack it in.....

If you can watch the UCONN and SU games again the difference is effort....and team chemistry......[call it leadership]

Also isn't it amazing that Jessie says in the Post that he is going to be a leader and the team comes out flat as a pancake???

We may not want to admit it, but something is rotten in Denmark!

[stonehandssam]

Is it our bench? I don't know the exact date, but it seems that our play deteriorated (or ourlosses mounted) in direct proportion to increased playing time for other players. The assumptions early on were that we have a very strong starting five, but a pretty steep drop-off after that. But we also realized that we needed more depth and had to integrate other players if we hoped to do any damage in the tourney. Could this have disrupted the chemistry and flow that was being created by the starting five as they beat Memphis, manhandled UCONN and crushed Cuse? Just a thought...

[SFHoya99]

Feb 8, 2009 21:18:51 GMT -5 hoya21 said:

I've seen all the games and the difference is 'speed and effort'. We were all out and in sync with UCONN and SU. We would come down, quick passes, inside and outside and fire up a three (and it went in)... Now we slowly bring it up the court, three passes on the top, look in side, and do something stupid.... Teams pack it in.....

If you can watch the UCONN and SU games again the difference is effort....and team chemistry......[call it leadership]

Also isn't it amazing that Jessie says in the Post that he is going to be a leader and the team comes out flat as a pancake???

We may not want to admit it, but something is rotten in Denmark!

I'm hesitant to call anything "effort." I think the guys are trying and they are Editeded they are losing.

I think there is a lack of focus at times. That is, they just don't keep up the effort consistently. I'm always amazed at the amount of focus required for sports at a high level. I think one of the biggest things that comes with experience is being able to maintain that focus.

This team will play great defense for five to ten minutes, then get ahead and suddenly relax. Or they will get behind and force things -- wishing to get hot.

I don't think it is a lack of effort. Perhaps that's leadership. But I do think they simply do not put together a focused effort long enough to win games.

[Hoya TMF]

i blame myself. i broke up with my girlfriend in mid janaury, and we've beaten only one team since then. i am going to buy her an engagement ring asap. hopefully this will right the ship.

[swhoya]

Hoya TMF-

I encourage you to consult the brain trust first.

[jacko]

Feb 8, 2009 12:00:16 GMT -5 strummer8526 said:

Feb 8, 2009 11:22:00 GMT -5 FLHoya said:

I keep making comparisons between the 08-09 team and the 04-05 team of JT3's first season at GU. The 04-05 team understandably took a while to get going after undertaking an entirely new system, but it's quality wins were all "early" in the Big East season:

The 67-64 upset of Pitt at the Pete in the conference opener on Jan. 5th.

The last second 66-64 victory over Nova at the Pavilion on Jan. 15th.

Roy Hibbert's buzzer beating dunk for a 55-54 win over ND on Jan. 23rd.

That's three of the first six BE games, after which the Hoyas started slumping. I think inexperience and fatigue caught up to that team.

As for the 08-09 team, I think our collective inexperience plays a big role. But there's one other pretty obvious factor in why we haven't replicated our big early season wins, and I'll keep it simple:

Opponents scout us.

Agree w/ many of your comparisons. But didn't teams scout us last year?

Yeah, but when you're in the same conference and you're seeing a team that plays within a certain system quite often, you get to know them better. This group needs to learn to execute the offense better, such that other teams will have trouble stopping what they already know is coming.

Look at the Ohio State games in '06 and '07. OSU had a 2 day turnaround to play us as a 7-seed (probably more capable of winning the tournament than the following year) and we had a field day on offense. The following year they had 5 prep days and the sting of the previous year's defeat, and our offensive flow was nothing like they allowed the previous year.

[swhoya]

Here's how I explain the early season wins:

TALENT. Individually, the players on this team have it. And that can win you a few tough games here and there.

But they don't play as a team and they don't play with heart. Greg is as good as he is because his game is multi-faceted. He's not a Melo, he's not a Durant. He could make a good team great, but he can't win games by himself. If these guys played as a team (and ESPECIALLY if they start playing HOYA DEFENSE), they could start winning games again. They may not be final 4 contenders this year, but they could be dangerous. Instead, it's a collection of talented players, but not superstars, and you can't consistently win that way unless they play as a team.

[HoyasAreHungry]

the bottom line is noone has an answer for what is going on with this team....we have the players to play like we have in these so called big wins....they are not surprising. but for some reason something has gone terribly wrong and noone here or it seems like on the team can figure out why. THAT is the surprising thing.

[SirSaxa]

Feb 9, 2009 23:26:24 GMT -5 HoyasAreHungry said:

the bottom line is noone has an answer for what is going on with this team....we have the players to play like we have in these so called big wins....they are not surprising. but for some reason something has gone terribly wrong and noone here or it seems like on the team can figure out why. THAT is the surprising thing.

I agree with you on this.
But while we don't know exactly what IS wrong with this team, we do know some things it is NOT.

It is NOT:
Princeton Offense
Coaching ability of the staff
Physical talent of the team
Facilities

I hope and pray for us, but even more for the team, that they manage to get their collective act together and win some tough close games down the stretch to give themselves some pride and a good positive feeling for next year. Or for themselves to take wherever they go next (Graduation, or whatever). Hopefully, most if not ALL of the kids who have eligibility remaining will return.

[DanMcQ]

Post moved into this thread:

Feb 12, 2009 9:42:26 GMT -5 Hoya TMF said:

How we beat UConn ...
and lost to so many others?

A lot of us have been wondering how a team that beat the likes of Connecticut, Memphis and Syracuse could also lose to Seton Hall and Cincinatti twice. There's been a lot of talk about our lack of leadership and composure down the stretch. There's also been some talk that beating UConn was a fluke. While we definitely have some serious issues, the UConn win was hardly a fluke. That win had everything to do with match-ups. So have some of our losses.

Over the last three years, we have beaten UConn three times. I can't remember if we are undefeated, but its clear we have dominated the series in the most recent years. When we had Roy, we won because we were the only team in the Big East that could match up with Thabeet on both ends of the floor. Roy was as tall and more skilled than Thabeet was. Roy could score on him fairly regularly, get him in foul trouble, and he could also face up to give our smaller guys enough space to score at the basket.

This year, Thabeet is even better, but we have the great equalizer in Greg Monroe. Greg is not a great low post scorer, but he can face up, and he can beat Thabeet off the dribble to the basket. Plus, Greg's a great passer from the high post. Especially after Roy drilled that three last year and Greg knocked one down in the early going, Thabeet had to be particularly mindful of playing up on our bigs. As a result, we were able to get relatively easy scores for our guards at the rim. That is a game changer agaisnt UConn. Its the same way that both Gonzaga and Michigan almost beat them. By contrast, teams like Cuse and Louisville that have more traditional centers tried to go right at Thabeet and were totally ineffective.

I'm sure this isn't a revelation, but it helps me make a bit more sense of the season. We have a lot of talent, but I think the UConn win perhaps inflated expectations with this team. We played a great game, but we also match up incredibly well with Conneticut, especially because Thabeet's offense is still well behind his defense. Some of our losses can also be attributed to match-ups and a lack of toughness up front. Roy didn't have to be as tough because he was really tall. Against Pitt, West Virginia and Cincy in particular, Greg and others have struggled with the physicality down low. When Greg gets bodied down there, he just isn't as effective. That, of course doesn't explain the Seton Hall and Duke losses, but match-ups is only one issue. Here's hoping that we figure things out for Saturday becuase the Cuse will be another tough one, especially if we don't light it up from outside.