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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Nov 10, 2008 20:30:37 GMT -5
I agree with the first of your two issues, but not stem cell research...this, i don't believe, qualifies as a partisan issue. A number of republicans supported federal funding for stem cell research Virutally all Republicans support stem cell research but a very large percent of Republicans strongly object to embryonic stem cell research. Leading off his administration by supporting Federal funds for embryonic stem cell research is shoving it down the throats of a very large percent of Republicans. And if you do not understand this is a partisan issue you are completely misunderstanding the importance of this issue to so many Republicans. I think Obama will try to carve out some middle ground on this research issue just as Bush did. The US continues to fund research on existing embryonic stem cell lines, while countless embryos are still destroyed regardless of whether there is research conducted on them. I expect an Obama policy to be one where the government funds research on those stem cells that would otherwise be destroyed but not to fund research on stem cells that would only be created for research purposes. |
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HoyaNyr320
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,233
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Nov 10, 2008 20:49:41 GMT -5
Ambassador, I agree with you 100%. This is the common sense approach that is widely accepted by Democrats and Republicans. Here's the Roll Call vote: clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll020.xml . Among the many Republicans that accepted this approach is Congressman Joe Barton joebarton.house.gov/Default.aspx . Congressman Barton is one of the most ardent anti-choice members in the House of Representatives. |
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Nov 11, 2008 19:39:23 GMT -5
Ambassador, I agree with you 100%. This is the common sense approach that is widely accepted by Democrats and Republicans. Here's the Roll Call vote: clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll020.xml . Among the many Republicans that accepted this approach is Congressman Joe Barton joebarton.house.gov/Default.aspx . Congressman Barton is one of the most ardent anti-choice members in the House of Representatives. Your understanding of what is "widely accepted by Democrats and Republicans" is, to say the least, a stretch since your own link shows it was supported by 93% of Democrats while 81% of Republicans voted against it. Also, Barton is not anti-choice, he's pro-life. |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Nov 11, 2008 20:38:00 GMT -5
Ambassador, I agree with you 100%. This is the common sense approach that is widely accepted by Democrats and Republicans. Here's the Roll Call vote: clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll020.xml . Among the many Republicans that accepted this approach is Congressman Joe Barton joebarton.house.gov/Default.aspx . Congressman Barton is one of the most ardent anti-choice members in the House of Representatives. Your understanding of what is "widely accepted by Democrats and Republicans" is, to say the least, a stretch since your own link shows it was supported by 93% of Democrats while 81% of Republicans voted against it. Also, Barton is not anti-choice, he's pro-life. I think we can do better than to play games with labels. The implication here is that people who do not subscribe to certain conservative positions are "anti-life," and, similarly, some are "anti-choice." I, for one, do not appreciate the anti-life label as I'm sure others don't want to be called anti-choice. The reality, I think, is that most Americans (red, blue, and purple) don't like abortions and don't want to see them occur. That does not make people pro-choice or pro-life. It just is what it is, and nobody needs to be shown a Bible or Bill of Rights to be punished for ascribing to one view or the other. Back to stem cells - my view has always been that we can do more for living, cognizant people than we do for to-be-destroyed embryos, by conducting research. I do not think this research will all of a sudden create huge lines for gentlemen to pee in a cup and otherwise for the purpose of creating some population of embryos for research. I consider my view to be pragmatic, while I also appreciate that many hold deep and valuable religious views that take them to another position that I do not consider to be as pragmatic, which is the basis of my evaluation of the issue. |
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
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Post by hifigator on Nov 12, 2008 14:19:52 GMT -5
Your understanding of what is "widely accepted by Democrats and Republicans" is, to say the least, a stretch since your own link shows it was supported by 93% of Democrats while 81% of Republicans voted against it. Also, Barton is not anti-choice, he's pro-life. I think we can do better than to play games with labels. The implication here is that people who do not subscribe to certain conservative positions are "anti-life," and, similarly, some are "anti-choice." I, for one, do not appreciate the anti-life label as I'm sure others don't want to be called anti-choice. The reality, I think, is that most Americans (red, blue, and purple) don't like abortions and don't want to see them occur. That does not make people pro-choice or pro-life. It just is what it is, and nobody needs to be shown a Bible or Bill of Rights to be punished for ascribing to one view or the other. Back to stem cells - my view has always been that we can do more for living, cognizant people than we do for to-be-destroyed embryos, by conducting research. I do not think this research will all of a sudden create huge lines for gentlemen to pee in a cup and otherwise for the purpose of creating some population of embryos for research. I consider my view to be pragmatic, while I also appreciate that many hold deep and valuable religious views that take them to another position that I do not consider to be as pragmatic, which is the basis of my evaluation of the issue. I agree with you ambassador, one of numerous times which I cross over from traditional party line issues -- something mysteriously and conveniently forgotton or ignored by some on this board. |
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
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Post by TBird41 on Nov 12, 2008 14:26:01 GMT -5
I think we can do better than to play games with labels. The implication here is that people who do not subscribe to certain conservative positions are "anti-life," and, similarly, some are "anti-choice." I, for one, do not appreciate the anti-life label as I'm sure others don't want to be called anti-choice. The reality, I think, is that most Americans (red, blue, and purple) don't like abortions and don't want to see them occur. That does not make people pro-choice or pro-life. It just is what it is, and nobody needs to be shown a Bible or Bill of Rights to be punished for ascribing to one view or the other. Back to stem cells - my view has always been that we can do more for living, cognizant people than we do for to-be-destroyed embryos, by conducting research. I do not think this research will all of a sudden create huge lines for gentlemen to pee in a cup and otherwise for the purpose of creating some population of embryos for research. I consider my view to be pragmatic, while I also appreciate that many hold deep and valuable religious views that take them to another position that I do not consider to be as pragmatic, which is the basis of my evaluation of the issue. I agree with you ambassador, one of numerous times which I cross over from traditional party line issues -- something mysteriously and conveniently forgotton or ignored by some on this board. Stupid cuts across all party lines |
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The Stig
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,844
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Post by The Stig on Nov 12, 2008 14:45:09 GMT -5
I think we can do better than to play games with labels. The implication here is that people who do not subscribe to certain conservative positions are "anti-life," and, similarly, some are "anti-choice." I, for one, do not appreciate the anti-life label as I'm sure others don't want to be called anti-choice. The reality, I think, is that most Americans (red, blue, and purple) don't like abortions and don't want to see them occur. That does not make people pro-choice or pro-life. It just is what it is, and nobody needs to be shown a Bible or Bill of Rights to be punished for ascribing to one view or the other. Back to stem cells - my view has always been that we can do more for living, cognizant people than we do for to-be-destroyed embryos, by conducting research. I do not think this research will all of a sudden create huge lines for gentlemen to pee in a cup and otherwise for the purpose of creating some population of embryos for research. I consider my view to be pragmatic, while I also appreciate that many hold deep and valuable religious views that take them to another position that I do not consider to be as pragmatic, which is the basis of my evaluation of the issue. I agree with you ambassador, one of numerous times which I cross over from traditional party line issues -- something mysteriously and conveniently forgotton or ignored by some on this board. We're not trying to ignore your stance, we're trying to ignore YOU. Contrary to what you'd like to believe, our lives don't revolve around what hifigator posts on a message board. |
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
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Post by hifigator on Nov 12, 2008 14:56:44 GMT -5
I agree with you ambassador, one of numerous times which I cross over from traditional party line issues -- something mysteriously and conveniently forgotton or ignored by some on this board. We're not trying to ignore your stance, we're trying to ignore YOU. Contrary to what you'd like to believe, our lives don't revolve around what hifigator posts on a message board. Whatever. You know that's not what I meant. All I was saying is that there is an all-too-frequent insinuation that I, or many of the other conservative thinkers are "mere sheep" being lef around" by one of our shepherds. |
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 12, 2008 17:45:12 GMT -5
No, it's just you that posts internet forwards and repeats things he heard off the radio.
Most of the other posters here have their own perspective. I'm sure you have your own at times, but posting things like "Obama is starting the Nazi youth" -- well, that's not thinking.
I know -- you weren't endorsing -- whatever. Most of us don't bother posting idiocy and pretend we're just curious.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Nov 13, 2008 0:21:23 GMT -5
We're not trying to ignore your stance, we're trying to ignore YOU. Contrary to what you'd like to believe, our lives don't revolve around what hifigator posts on a message board. Whatever. You know that's not what I meant. All I was saying is that there is an all-too-frequent insinuation that I, or many of the other conservative thinkers are "mere sheep" being lef around" by one of our shepherds. No you're not a sheep. That would be demeaning to sheep. You post whatever invective you want, claim you don't hold that view (although you took time out of your day to find the link and post it here), and then trot out the same non-responsive argument when someone calls you on the idiocy of what you've posted. You either have no opinions or are too cowardly to claim that what you are saying is something that you endorse. Offer a perspective, offer an opinion, but don't do it and pretend you aren't. Just be intellectually honest about things. |
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Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
Posts: 5,304
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Post by Cambridge on Nov 13, 2008 10:14:24 GMT -5
As much as I bore of hifi, at this point aren't we veering toward argumentum ad hominem?
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Nov 13, 2008 11:31:57 GMT -5
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,459
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Post by TC on Nov 13, 2008 12:03:06 GMT -5
Ed, this is a thread about Obama - and the only quotes in here about Obama are the fact that he doesn't want his first term eaten up by witch hunts or excessive hearings. Isn't that the spirit of bipartisanship you say you want?
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
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Post by hifigator on Nov 13, 2008 12:16:44 GMT -5
“I would not want my first term consumed by what was perceived on the part of Republicans as a partisan witch hunt, because I think we’ve got too many problems we’ve got to solve.”
But even if his administration rejects the calls for investigations, Mr. Obama cannot control what the courts or Congress do.
At least on the surface, I like what Obama said. As to the second line, while it's true that Obama can't "make" congress or the courts do this, that or the other, we all know that his suggestions will carry a lot of weight. If he publicly washes his hands of these issues, but they continue without hesitation, then I think it will be fairly safe to say that he didn't really let his objections be heard. At this point however, we will have to wait and see.
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