jgalt
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,380
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Post by jgalt on Nov 9, 2008 22:31:43 GMT -5
Again, i cant say your wrong because i dont know the team. yeah, we will see later this month. doesnt that feel great to say! to know that basketball will have been played and games decided and questions answered. like lic i am SOOO glad its november. only 8 more days people, 8
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alleninxis
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,216
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Post by alleninxis on Nov 9, 2008 22:35:24 GMT -5
I'd be surprised if we don't beat Memphis pretty soundly at home.
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
Posts: 4,544
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Post by FLHoya on Nov 10, 2008 0:07:01 GMT -5
Again, i cant say your wrong because i dont know the team. Well here's a start...it's spelled SIENA. ;D I KEED!! Not sure what to make of the premise of these threads. It's an interesting topic I suppose. We certainly do have a number of fun games this season between a cool non-conference schedule and the uber-tough Big East slate. But I can't help but think on some level it smacks of "we're searching for validation". Maybe that's the mindset we're in...IDK...younger team, lost a lot of senior leadership, looking for an identity in the post-Generation Roy era of Final Fours and consecutive Big East titles. And maybe that's the correct mindset. Looking back on the last few years however...as great as beating Duke was in Jan 06, wasn't beating Pitt at home a few weeks later much more important than we give it credit for? Okay fine, we made JJ Reddick cry, but for me it's cooler to go out the next game and the next game and so on and take care of business against good teams. Pitt was a Top Ten team, a Big East heavyweight, and we took care of business. One of the reasons I like the last two seasons...not that there were SO MANY "signature wins"...but that it reached the point where we didn't have to call them "signature wins" and get all hot and bothered...we just treated it as if we were going about our business. On the other hand...maybe that's why last season was more stressful and didn't seem quite as fun... Darnit. Bring on the Dukies I guess.
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Post by Hoya TMF on Nov 10, 2008 1:44:30 GMT -5
Well that's why Duke was such a huge win for us. It was not just a signature win for our team that year, but really a signature win for our program. The whole country and many recruits took notice after that win. And it completely energized our fan base.
Still, I can't say that we've come so far that we don't need "signature" wins. Every team needs signature wins on their resume going into the NCAA, except perhaps UNC. I like the Duke game because they don't lose OOC games at home, and they are overrated as always. I just want to go about exposing them with the missing player to their offense (Greg Monroe) to boot!
This year's schedule is great. It will be fun to watch.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,331
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Post by tashoya on Nov 10, 2008 9:39:14 GMT -5
When is beating Duke EVER not flippin' GREAT? Signature, whatever you call it. Stomping the throats of lesser teams and stealing one from a better squad... all good. Duke, IMO, falls in the first category for us this year. Still great to beat Duke (anyone else miss the ACC-Big East challenge?).
And lic, rhetorically.... if a sibling goes to UCONN, is he/she still a sibling?
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Post by lichoya68 on Nov 10, 2008 10:31:33 GMT -5
GOOD POINT ABOUT THE SIBLING THING HOW DO YOU DISOWN ONE AND MOST OTHERS ARE BY MARRIAGE SO NOT AS BAD go hoyas much the huskies IS IT FEB YET WWOWOOWOWOWWOWWOWOOWO
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,331
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Post by tashoya on Nov 10, 2008 10:44:59 GMT -5
Lic... not sure how to disown one. Though if any Hoyas out there HAD siblings that went to the big stupid orange place in upstate NY, they should CERTAINLY be able to tell you.
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dailey247
Century (over 100 posts)
Deleted
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Post by dailey247 on Nov 10, 2008 13:51:46 GMT -5
The only thing that will get national attention - for any school, really, not just us - is a win over North Carolina. Anything else is an uneventful result of two talented teams meeting. Also, in the 82-83 season we played 6 top ten teams, plus number 11.
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royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by royski on Nov 10, 2008 14:08:17 GMT -5
The only thing that will get national attention - for any school, really, not just us - is a win over North Carolina. Anything else is an uneventful result of two talented teams meeting. Also, in the 82-83 season we played 6 top ten teams, plus number 11. That's simply not true. At all actually.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Nov 10, 2008 17:26:18 GMT -5
Siena is legit.
I am less worried about signature wins than beating ALL of the teams that we should beat. To me, the best programs are the ones that consistently win the games they should have and rarely get upset. I would rather lose to Memphis, Tennessee, and (vomit on self) Dook than to beat one of those teams but drop a game to South Florida, Jacksonville or somebody even the Hoyas should beat.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 10, 2008 17:45:55 GMT -5
That's the opposite way the NCAA Selection Committee looks at it. To them, big wins more than offset big losses. I tend to think that way, as well -- a let down once in a while hurts less than proving you can play against the best.
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Hoyaholic
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by Hoyaholic on Nov 10, 2008 18:25:21 GMT -5
I am less worried about signature wins than beating ALL of the teams that we should beat. To me, the best programs are the ones that consistently win the games they should have and rarely get upset. I would rather lose to Memphis, Tennessee, and (vomit on self) Dook than to beat one of those teams but drop a game to South Florida, Jacksonville or somebody even the Hoyas should beat. You must have been a huge fan of the 2001-2002 Hoyas.
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
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Post by FLHoya on Nov 10, 2008 18:33:47 GMT -5
I am less worried about signature wins than beating ALL of the teams that we should beat. To me, the best programs are the ones that consistently win the games they should have and rarely get upset. I would rather lose to Memphis, Tennessee, and (vomit on self) Dook than to beat one of those teams but drop a game to South Florida, Jacksonville or somebody even the Hoyas should beat. You must have been a huge fan of the 2001-2002 Hoyas. Now, now...everyone knows the 2001-2002 Hoyas didn't beat anybody. ;D If this makes sense, I agree with SF's point that the Selection Committee places more weight on quality wins than bad losses. I also believe however that bad losses or "slip-ups" are what decides the standings in the middle (think 3 through 8) of the Big East. You'll recall losing to South Florida on the final day of the 05-06 regular season cost us a bye in the BET. Sometimes bad losses do even decide the Big East Championship...think Louisville is kicking themselves over losing to Cincinnati at home and dropping one at Seton Hall last season?
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FewFAC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by FewFAC on Nov 10, 2008 22:53:03 GMT -5
Whoever said North Carolina got it right. We should beat everybody else on our schedule.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Nov 11, 2008 8:42:27 GMT -5
I understand that to some extent the NCAA focuses more on big wins than bad losses...but in that respect they are wrong, and I am not going to root for something to happen because it will bolster the selection committee's flawed logic. For the same reason, I think it is wrong to give so much attention to the RPI, because it is an absurd statistic. If more people spoke out about how bad the RPI is, perhaps the selection committee would not use it to such an extent.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 11, 2008 10:28:03 GMT -5
I don't know why the committee would have flawed logic in this case. It is a tournament to determine the national champion -- why would you ever invite a team that didn't beat a team higher than an eight seed? If it can't win a single game against good competition, why bother?
On the other hand, a team with high potential may be coming together at the end of season and those big wins show they can actually contend.
As for the RPI, as an indicator of what team is better, it's a junk stat. If youa re going to have statistical rankings to help determine who is best, something like Pomeroy is better.
That said, RPI does exactly what the committee wants it to do, and 95 percent of that is a good thing.
It encourages teams to play a tougher schedule.
It encourages teams to play on the road.
It does so without encouraging teams to run up the score.
Look at college football. Because the polls are so dominant, their behavioer generally dictates scheduling. Play a schedule that gives you a signature win but doesn't risk a loss anywhere else.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Nov 11, 2008 12:23:04 GMT -5
Again, the enormous problem with the RPI is that it tries to quantify virtually meaningless games in a way that affects its numbers in a very material respect. The RPI makes a big distinction in a game versus the number 184 RPI team and a game against the 305 RPI team. In reality, any game against any team that is clearly outside of the top 120-150 teams in the country is meaningless. If the RPI can be adjusted to consider all games against inferior opponents equally, it will have some value. As of right now, it is meaningless.
Moreover, the selection committee should not be using some bogus statistic to dictate scheduling. The formula for scheduling is simple: give your team a chance to get some good wins, but don't aim too high and end up with an unimpressive record. The games that are neither quality wins nor bad losses should not be a factor- period. Sadly, those games are a huge component of the RPI system.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Nov 11, 2008 12:29:20 GMT -5
In addition, I would argue that the selection committee's goal is not to choose the "potentially" best teams that somehow have a shot to win it all; the committee should strive to select the teams that performed the best during the season. I will always favor letting in a team with less of a chance to win the NCAA championship (as evidenced by no really good wins and perhaps even some embarrassing losses against elite competition, but a number of respectable wins) than a team with a signature win or two, but a fair number less respectable wins.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 11, 2008 13:02:49 GMT -5
No disagreement on the RPI as an indicator of who's best. But again, the idea is to drive scheduling.
As for the latter argument, you're moving the target when you say "a fair number less respectable wins.".
I may agree with that depending on the situation. But given the choice of winning at UConn and losing to Seton Hall, I'd take that over the opposite.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Nov 11, 2008 13:12:13 GMT -5
And that's where we disagree. I think we have to beat SHU and other like teams a very high percentage of the time, while I will settle for a win here and there versus UConn and other elite teams. Of course, I would love to beat most/ all of the competition at all times!
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