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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Aug 22, 2008 12:06:53 GMT -5
As a conservative leaning Independent (my guess, C2C, is that you would be the liberal leaning version), Honestly dude, I don't even know anymore. What do those words even mean these days? I'm solidly green, in favor or fewer laws generally (and funding and fair enforcement of the laws we have or else get rid of them---a la Teddy Roosevelt when he was police commissioner of NYC), in favor of the US and state governments doing things that in everyone's interest (like providing clean air and drinking water and national defense), and ensuring rule of law. I think the private sector is better at doing certain things than the public sector, and vice versa. I find it hard taking a strong stance either way on several issues. Seriously though, every time I read HoyaTalk, I'm like "oh SF just made a good point" "Oh, so did Boz" "oh, so did kc" "oh so did ed" "oh so did SirSaxa" and on and on and on.... What I really think is that this board is just filled with really smart people who are really good at arguing and know a lot (or can find out a lot) about issues of significance. On the whole, though, there are a lot more threads bashing than building, and I just find it really tiresome so I thought I'd give the vitrolic route a try (not usually my style). Sorry if that rant came across as pompous, or arrogant, or self-important; it's just really frustrating to keep reading the same diatribes and digs over and over when the collective brainpower of this board could solve the oil crisis if it worked together. Anyway back to the important stuff. This guy might be THE luckiest guy in the world!
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 22, 2008 12:21:44 GMT -5
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Aug 22, 2008 13:07:15 GMT -5
Anytime the discussion of "Luckiest Man in the World" comes up, one of the first guys that comes to mind is Ringo Starr. Not that he was a bad drummer, but there were thousands that were better that no one has ever heard of. That alone puts him on the list, but topping it off by marrying Barbara Bach? I can think of worse things.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Aug 22, 2008 13:19:51 GMT -5
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FewFAC
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Post by FewFAC on Aug 22, 2008 14:56:19 GMT -5
I woulda gone with this guy, but that's mostly because I don't trust Mexicans. (not true) Hey, at least B.A.G. played with Babyface- the man has some skills. But at this point Fox > Alba, I will grant you that. I don't even know what Fox is famous for. Alba is still a 919.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 22, 2008 15:04:31 GMT -5
Anytime the discussion of "Luckiest Man in the World" comes up, one of the first guys that comes to mind is Ringo Starr. Not that he was a bad drummer, but there were thousands that were better that no one has ever heard of. That alone puts him on the list, but topping it off by marrying Barbara Bach? I can think of worse things. Geez HiFi. I don't want to appear like I am picking on you, and I am sure that sooner or later we will find something to agree on, but you are flat out wrong about Ringo Starr. "Thousands of better drummers"? Did you know the Beatles did not have a hit record until Ringo joined them. His drumming is really quite remarkable and among the best in the pop/rock genre. If you never realized that, go back and listen to this body of work paying attention to fills and accents, the solid yet inventive back beat, and the interplay within the rhythm section... that would be Paul on bass and Ringo on drums. Ringo was a far better and much more inventive drummer than he is sometimes given credit for (by non-musicians), maybe because of his quirky personality or maybe in comparison to the more scintilating and spectacular reputations of his band mates? Did you know that Paul and John both credited Ringo's drumming when asked what put the early band over the top to commercial success? And if you stop and think about it, why would such remarkable musicians as Paul, John and George settle for an average drummer? OK, here's a chance to redeem yourself. Can you name the one song in all the Beatles' recorded material that includes a Ringo drum solo?
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 22, 2008 15:56:43 GMT -5
Hey, at least B.A.G. played with Babyface- the man has some skills. But at this point Fox > Alba, I will grant you that. I don't even know what Fox is famous for. Alba is still a 919. What's a 919? c2c - (combining because lord knows I don't need the post padding) - I lean probably a bit more to the left than you, but I'm right there with you. Socially, I'm pretty liberal, but I have a lot of things that don't fit the standards -- I'm pro-strong defense, I think the federal government should set standards and local governments execute, I know there's massive amounts of wasted money in bureaucracy... But most importantly, I'd like to see a lot more building. You're right that we're all too good at arguing -- and we forget that isn't the point. Georgetown just makes it worse -- I swear persuasive arguing is the #1 skill you learn there (and that's in the good and bad sense). I've found that when I talk problems and tactics, the discussion is valuable -- the instant it becomes politics people cling to associations (party, who they voted for) rather than common sense.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 22, 2008 16:00:09 GMT -5
Ringo gets crap because as a songwriter he basically wrote goofy children's songs. Yellow Submarine basically kept people from taking him seriously.
And when you compare it to the three distinct but absolutely brilliant songwriting styles of Lennon, McCartney and Harrison, yeah, I can see why.
But I think that opinion has bubbled over from songwriting into playing. I admit I've never really noticed Ringo's drumming either way because it isn't a preeminent element to Beatles songs and he doesn't get the John Bonham-esque solos.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 22, 2008 16:47:05 GMT -5
I admit I've never really noticed Ringo's drumming either way because it isn't a preeminent element to Beatles songs and he doesn't get the John Bonham-esque solos. I think you will enjoy it if you try paying attention to the drum track next time you hear a Beatles tune... hopefully on a good sound system. Ringo is a vastly underrated talent. The drummer for Journey had a great quote years ago about how you can listen just to Ringo's drum track and know exactly which song it's from because the patterns were each unique and tailored precisely to the songs. You can also hear it on the LOVE sound track (The Cirque du Soleil project) because the tracks are all combined in new ways... yet the drum tracks always stand out.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Aug 22, 2008 17:19:23 GMT -5
Hey, at least B.A.G. played with Babyface- the man has some skills. But at this point Fox > Alba, I will grant you that. I don't even know what Fox is famous for. Alba is still a 919. Fox is famous for being one.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Aug 22, 2008 17:38:44 GMT -5
c2c - (combining because lord knows I don't need the post padding) - I lean probably a bit more to the left than you Maybe, maybe not: could we define "left" (non-pejoratively, hifi) and see? I just re-read some of the textual material on the definitions of liberalism, conservatism, etc. and they just seem so different than the way we use them in the States and on HoyaTalk. We know that Left and Right are not directly correlative to Liberal and Conservative. We also know they're not directly correlative to Democratic and Republican. So what is "left" and what is "right"? Is it left to support environmental sensibility? Sound fiscal management? A military strong enough to protect us from threats? Transparent govrnment? Police powers that ensure safety but also protect privacy? Access to opportunities for economic advancement? Support of a landed aristocracy? Belief that God is the ultimate authority? Are there some issues that transcend being couched in either term, like certain inalienable rights? I'd love to nail down definitions of left, right, liberal, conservative, etc to use on HoyaTalk. As it is, I just dunno man. I've always inherently had a problem those terms. I think using "right" biases the whole system unfairly in that another definition of right is "correct" but also because system is based on where the Feuillants and Montagnards or the Jacobins and monarchists sat in the French Legislative Assembly. Can't we do better than "one direction or another", especially when the characteristics that defined the terms in the first place are hundreds of years old? Also SF, I couldn't agree more about your Gtown point; my folks and friends in SoCal pointed that out several times. I'd also love to see more building. Why do you think it's so tough?
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CO_Hoya
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Post by CO_Hoya on Aug 22, 2008 17:46:27 GMT -5
Ringo gets crap because as a songwriter he basically wrote goofy children's songs. Yellow Submarine basically kept people from taking him seriously. He didn't write it, Paul McCartney did. He just sang it ( link).
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 22, 2008 18:18:12 GMT -5
CO - shows what I know.
C2C - Point taken on "left" and "right".
Why it is so hard to do building? I think that part of it is illustrated by this story.
I have a really good friend who started a political blog a while ago, and he wanted to do a podcast (though this was pre-podcast, I think) of he and several of our friends talking politics.
He detailed a list of questions that were very non-partisan. By that I mean that they were solving specific problems or asking viewpoint on what we look for in a president or general points of view on governments, etc. It was never about Bush's policy on X or anything like that.
When the questions were not easily identifiable to a current debate -- that is, when the question, which may have been specific and detailed, was not easily tied in anyone's mind to a current piece of party dogma/decision or position a current prominent politician had taken, the debate was courteous and people looked for common ground and built on each other's ideas.
The instant something could be couched in party, dogmatic, or Bush/non-Bush terms, people clung to party lines like crazy.
Long story short (too late): Every human being tends to make associations. And once we make those, we tend to defend them very strongly. Look at sports -- Giants fans with Barry Bonds, for example. Once people sign up for a side, they defend that side regardless of if they've even thought about it. An attack on that side is like an attack on that individual -- that's how it is perceived.
I think that's a big part of it. It's hard to stay in the middle, alone. But it's hard to keep a truly open mind once you've endorsed something.
That's one part, I think.
Another one I find more and more is that people in politics make tactical decisions into value decisions. Values/beliefs are being used way too much in "how" you solve a problem, much more than they should be. Yes, they are times when that must come into play (let's not solve jaywalking by killing all jaywalkers on site, for example) but c'mon, how many politicians at the national level are interested in improving our education from a completely open viewpoint? Most of the soundbites I hear just make it one more pawn in the utterly ridiculous state/federal debate.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 22, 2008 18:21:06 GMT -5
And apparently Ringo wrote "Don't Pass Me By" which I like quite a bit. However, he also wrote "Octopus' Garden" which is pretty much drivel to me.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 22, 2008 20:20:22 GMT -5
But the Ringo discussion was about his talent as a drummer, not as a composer or singer.
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