kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 18, 2008 11:55:32 GMT -5
If Phelps is from another planet, Bolt is from another solar system. Yeah, but let's see him do it 3 or 4 different disciplines, sometimes with less than an hour between races AND setting a world record almost every time. Still, that race was very impressive.
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PDRHoya99
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Post by PDRHoya99 on Aug 18, 2008 12:12:46 GMT -5
If Phelps is from another planet, Bolt is from another solar system. Yeah, but let's see him do it 3 or 4 different disciplines, sometimes with less than an hour between races AND setting a world record almost every time. Still, that race was very impressive. Exactly which 3 or 4 disciplines are you referring to? As far as I could tell he excelled in butterfly and freestyle and was so dominant in those two that his weaker strokes didn't hold him back in the IM. Yes, Phelps is good, but it's the nature of swimming that allows someone to get 8 medals (many similar races of the same or similar distances). If track held a race where you ran backwards or hopped on one foot for 100 meters I'd like Bolt's chances.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 18, 2008 12:59:46 GMT -5
Team USA Basketball.... OK, now ESPN and others are trying to drum up this fantasy that Australia has a good shot at an upset v. USA in the next game because (without Bogut) they played them close in an exhibition a few weeks ago.
But that was before the US team really came together. They are playing incredible basketball right now.
I think Kamen got it right: "Nobody is going to beat them. No way, it's just not going to happen," Germany's Chris Kaman said.
BTW, Kaman can do whatever he wants and he was never going to get to the Olympics playing for the USA. So he made a choice and that's fine for him.
But I can't imagine myself getting a chance to go to the Olympics... (ok, bear with me here, this is getting to a point other than you'll never get to the Olympics other than as a spectator anyway!), finally getting there and having to play for some other country? How weird would that be? Can't picture that. Must have been really really weird for Kaman. Kinda like going to LA to play NBA Basketball, then finding out you have to wear a Clippers jersey!
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Aug 18, 2008 13:12:07 GMT -5
Another perspective on these underage Chinese girls. China went to great expense and effort to ensure a very successful Olympics. So far it seems things have gone very well. The Chinese also spent a lot of time, money and effort building their athletics program... also successfully, though -- as TheBin pointed out -- in many cases they are winning in lesser known and less competitive sports. So why... given all this success... did they choose to embarrass themselves in front of the entire world by using female gymnasts who are so obviously underage? To me, it undermines what might otherwise be seen as a very impressive performance. One has to assume that the people who make the decisions in China are not used to critical responses to their mandates. They honestly have no experience in the realm of being called out on their BS like western rulers do. All of the chinese officials and coaches have a very canned and rehearsed "maybe everyone else is doing steroids" response to any such questions and then they move on.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 18, 2008 13:14:07 GMT -5
By the way, I can't watch any of this Equestrian Bull- Edited. This is absurd. I find the equestrian events and horsemanship pretty impressive and not at all easy. One sport I do have a hard time taking seriously is Ping Pong. That seems like something that should be relegated to a neighbor's basement rec room, or summer camp. Another one is Beach Volleyball. OK, it's fun to look at girls in bikinis playing in the sand. But really, beach volleyball? What's next, frisbee golf?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2008 13:14:45 GMT -5
Kinda like going to LA to play NBA Basketball, then finding out you have to wear a Clippers jersey! That's funny.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Aug 18, 2008 13:23:37 GMT -5
By the way, I can't watch any of this Equestrian Bull- Edited. This is absurd. I find the equestrian events and horsemanship pretty impressive and not at all easy. One sport I do have a hard time taking seriously is Ping Pong. That seems like something that should be relegated to a neighbor's basement rec room, or summer camp. Another one is Beach Volleyball. OK, it's fun to look at girls in bikinis playing in the sand. But really, beach volleyball? What's next, frisbee golf? Beach volleyball (playing in sand is objectively harder than on a court) seems more legit to me than several sports- ping pong for sure, but also badmiton. Badmiton looks like a beach sport designed for people too lazy to play volleyball. And it's not even played in sand. And boy do the beach volleyball players look athletic when compared to the badminton and ping pong participants. The thing that really chaps my hide about ping pong and badminton among others is that we can't just have one or two events like we have in basketball and be done with it. Why don't we have a basketball tournament for 3 on 3 half court too? We have to have every possible permutation for these lesser known team sports. Why? And generally speaking I think doubles anything is just a BS addition for those not good enough to do it on their own but they still want a medal. Don't even get me started on how absurd mixed doubles is.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 18, 2008 13:29:37 GMT -5
Beach volleyball (playing in sand is objectively harder than on a court) seems more legit to me than several sports- ping pong for sure, but also badmiton. Badmiton looks like a beach sport designed for people too lazy to play volleyball. And it's not even played in sand. And boy do the beach volleyball players look athletic when compared to the badminton and ping pong participants. Gotta agree with you on Badminton. And yes, the beach volleyball players look athletic. Probably because they started out playing real volleyball. I dunno, Beach Volleyball is like Roller hockey or Stick ball, or half court basketball. It's not a real sport, it's just an accommodation to available resources. Won't stop me watching Kerri and Misty however. As for ridiculous doubles sports ... how about Doubles Luge!??!
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Aug 18, 2008 13:33:15 GMT -5
Doubles luge is at the very top of the Pointless and Contrived Medal Sports Just Because list. It beat out mixed doubles ping pong by .07 of an absurdity.
I could go either way with beach volleyball. I enjoy watching it more than many sports, and it sure seems more difficult and more athletic than badminton or ping pong, but I would be fine with it being axed if it was part of widespread culling.
And I'll say it. Rowing? Fine. But kayak AND canoe? Really necessary?
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Aug 18, 2008 13:33:40 GMT -5
By the way, I can't watch any of this Equestrian Bull- Edited. This is absurd. I find the equestrian events and horsemanship pretty impressive and not at all easy. One sport I do have a hard time taking seriously is Ping Pong. That seems like something that should be relegated to a neighbor's basement rec room, or summer camp. Another one is Beach Volleyball. OK, it's fun to look at girls in bikinis playing in the sand. But really, beach volleyball? What's next, frisbee golf? In Bill Bryson's "In a Sunburned Country", which you should all go read right now, there are a few columns reporting on the 2004 Olympics. Bryson talks about table tennis and how world-class people could just destroy him. Just because Americans don't like it and don't spend any time on it doesn't mean it's not a real sport. Beach volleyball seems different enough from indoor volleyball to be legit. Before frisbee golf, however, there has to be actual golf on the program. Part of me favors kicking out men's and women's soccer and basketball, as well as keeping out rugby - all of those sports have world team championships (men's soccer, in particular, rigs the rules) that are more prestigious. Reducing those numbers allows in other sports.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Aug 18, 2008 13:37:35 GMT -5
I am completely confident that an Olympic ping pong master would thrash me in a game and that I would not even get a single point. And yet this impacts my view on whether it is a sport (and not a skilled game) not a bit. I am an incredible flip cups player, but I don't think this makes me an Olympic athlete.
I disagree that men's basketball has a more prestigious tournament. (It certainly does NOT for women.) If ever it was, the Worlds are certainly not as prestigious as the olympics have become since Barcelona. I think the Olympics spreads basketball popularity to new areas (not eastern and southern europe only) MUCH more than the Worlds ever did.
Olympic basketball used to be a formality that nobody really cared about, but it's fast becoming THE team sport event of the summer games. In fact, I think it is.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Aug 18, 2008 13:39:59 GMT -5
"Reducing those numbers allows in other sports. "
Do you really think the problem with the Olympics is it doesn't have ENOUGH barely-popular-anywhere sports?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Aug 18, 2008 13:47:35 GMT -5
Wait...did someone just say "chaps my hide" a few minutes ago? Heh-heh....that was funny. Anyway, in the debate about what should and should not be an Olympic sport, I'm kind of surprised that no one has brought up equestrian events yet. Yes, it is an athletic event...for the horse! But I'm pretty sure they give the medals to the rider. WTF is up with that? Not to mention that the equestrian events have another trait in common with the worst of all Olympic sports....judging as a replacement for scoring. Say what you want about table tennis (yes, it's table tennis, not ping-pong you insensitive jerks... ), but at least it's scored like a sport. I also think it tests some things that are generally considered athletic qualities, like hand-eye coordination, reflexes, agility. No, it's not volleyball, but I'll bet the table tennis players are more athletic than most of the people who sit around on horses.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Aug 18, 2008 13:50:58 GMT -5
"Reducing those numbers allows in other sports. " Do you really think the problem with the Olympics is it doesn't have ENOUGH barely-popular-anywhere sports? The problem with the Olympics is that it's this huge bacchanal of lots of sports. The best thing about the Olympics is that it's this huge bacchanal of lots of sports. So, get rid of men's basketball and men's soccer. Both draw lots of attention (bin, I fully agree that it's a marquee event) and both have outgrown the Olympics. Keep more marginal, non-team events that wouldn't fill GU's home gym for a world championship and allow them to leech off the Olympics so that the international media can cheer someone who just routs the competition in sepak takraw rather than the US taking it to the Argentines. For table tennis - eh, tennis is in there. Table tennis burns calories and is popular around the world.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Aug 18, 2008 14:20:50 GMT -5
If you get rid of the sports that draw a lot of attention, those people won't just get into ping pong or kayaking or doubles synchronized scrabble, they will just not show up/watch at all. I think all of the small sport athletes benefit from the fact that there are some sports we care about a lot every 4 years- swimming and track and gymnastics and now international basketball.
I do see where you are coming from. You think the Olympics is about the little sports time to shine. I respectfully don't share that view. I think priority should be instead granted to keeping the brand respected in making sure that Olympic medals continue to be percieved to be RARE things for world class athletes. It's pretty hard to make people think that Olympic medals are astonishing achievements when they see that 5 or 6 different small females have been given medals for being the stongest females to jerk 300 pounds over their heads. That kind of seems like a Special Olympics attitude to me.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 18, 2008 14:22:03 GMT -5
"Reducing those numbers allows in other sports. " Do you really think the problem with the Olympics is it doesn't have ENOUGH barely-popular-anywhere sports? Couldn't agree with you more. Also, "sports" that should be on the elimination list? Trampoline? A serious Olympic SPort? Badminton Ping Pong Rhythmic Gymnastics Shooting?? That AIR PISTOL has to go. Sync Swimming Triathlon -- Hey, it's tough. But we already have swimming and running and cycling. As for the two big team sports mentioned: Soccer -- at least it has the World Cup, a real, legitimate world championship. THe Olympics are extra. Personally, I don't mind it. But an argument could be made there's already a major championship that is more highly regarded. Basketball? Mens and womens? There is no world championship, other than the Olympics.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Aug 18, 2008 14:31:02 GMT -5
What ever happened to USA boxing? We used to be good for a healthy bunch of boxing and wrestling medals- I don't think we have one yet. This is where you can argue we lost the golds title to China. Maybe when freestyle starts up next week we can get some back.
I have always been a big believer in the total medals as best indicator. But for those that only count golds- why do they do so on a MEDALS table? Why not just have a golds table?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 18, 2008 14:35:57 GMT -5
My thoughts re: USA Basketball.
1. They are clearly the best team.
2. It's a single elimination tournament with shoddy officiating, a 40 minute clock and talented opponents. I won't be shocked if they lose.
3. This team does have players trying harder and there is better continuity. The story line that doesn't get played up but should, though, is that this team has vastly superior talent to the 2004 team. It's not even close. The 2004 team had a couple of Hall of Famers (neither of whom are well suited to the international game) and a whole bunch of one or two time all-stars.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 18, 2008 14:38:42 GMT -5
Trampoline is up there on the contrived sports. I'm pretty sure I invented that in my backyard when I was about eleven. If I had known I could win a medal for doing flips...
And it is pretty cool, but when every participant is someone who didn't make the team in "Real" gymnastics, doesn't that tell you something?
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Aug 18, 2008 14:39:00 GMT -5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_World_Championship is the world championship. Bin and Saxa: As bin had put it, we're coming at this from opposite perspectives. I see Saxa's list of sports on the chopping block and I don't really see the point of eliminating them. But then again, I'm the guy that is more interested in field hockey and team handball and who found trampoline strangely compelling. The Olympics come at a lull in most sporting calendars, and draws a lot of air. I'd like a little more of that air to go to sports that aren't going to get it otherwise. And I'd disagree with the "everybody gets a trophy" idea - if enough people compete in a sport, throw it in there. Triathlon is different that running or swimming or biking on their own, and a lot of people do it - throw it in under the big tent.
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