hifigator
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Post by hifigator on May 15, 2008 15:54:49 GMT -5
GP, you had me laughing on that one. In all seriousness, I would think that a Memphis in and USF out would make a lot of sense. Unfortunately that would still leave Miami as that odd team stuck way down in the south.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on May 15, 2008 15:56:45 GMT -5
what and then have 18 teams? Jeez this would get crazy. at that point it really should split into 2 conferences.
EDIT: Here's what would be best. Some one gives the Georgetown Football team a couple of million dollars to upgrade the football team and get us to division I status and villinova upgrades itself too. and then we take a conference of Georgetown, Villinova, Uconn, Syracuse, Louisville, Pittsburg, West Virginia, Cinicinatti, and Memphis that conference would be pretty unreal. It'd be pretty cool if we included Notre Dame and or South florida too.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on May 15, 2008 16:28:22 GMT -5
GP, you had me laughing on that one. In all seriousness, I would think that a Memphis in and USF out would make a lot of sense. Unfortunately that would still leave Miami as that odd team stuck way down in the south. Thanks for your prospective. I'm sure everyone is glad you weighed in on Miami, a school that joined the ACC in 2004.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on May 15, 2008 16:52:12 GMT -5
Woooo a conference split thread I didn't think we'd have one this early. I also wouldn't mind seeing us drop one football and one basketball school like droping south florida and depaul. Can't happen, can't make the football conference any smaller. Should be a little bigger. I'm telling you guys, Memphis is not all it's cracked up to be. A couple years from now Calipari is going to get exposed, the program is going to get sanctioned and Cal is gonna bounce. Memphis will then return to being a average-a little better than average mid-major. You don't hear a lot of high major fans clamoring for UNLV, do you? Why? Because they had a few good runs with a slimy coach and some shadily-obtained players, and then it all came crashing down and they are back to earth. Same is going to happen at Memphis. Don't let Cal's connections to Wes and the other runners/handlers fool you. They are essentially a flash in the pan as a program, because eventually somebody is going to cut out and will rat on everybody (see the recent OJ Mayo developments for proof). The NCAA loves to look the other way on a guy like Calipari (even though anybody who knows jack about the game knows shady things go on there) because it lines their pockets, but once somebody snitches to the media it's a wrap. Frankly, I'd rather not have all that happen in the Big East. There is no chance we "drop USF" and pickup Memphis. It doesn't even make sense. Football is the real revenue source for schools that have both high-major sports, and USF has a stronger football program than Memphis. It'd also be a ridiculous precedent to set, that if you aren't a great basketball school you can be bounced after a few years. If the Big East wanted Memphis, they could have had them back in '04, but they took USF for reasons of potential football growth, and USF has followed up on that by having a couple of pretty good football seasons. The idea of USF getting "dropped" for Memphis is just silly and nobody who really knows the deal would tell you it's possible. If Memphis is in "serious talks" to join the big east, it'll be the football side of things once the conference splits. Them joining that is totally plausible, though it's early to be having that conversation. And yes, a 17 team conference would be too, too much. 16 already is, but is stuck out of necessity for the time. Also the basketball schools are not stupid, and everybody is aware that right now there are 8 football teams in the big east, 7 non-football, and ND. All 7 of those schools (and ND) know that if they bring in another football school without another basketball school, they'd be outvoted on everything from here on. So the Catholic schools would never OK it. Finally, I for one am sick of the nail biting and hand wringing surrounding the conference split. I used to sweat the whole thing myself, but not anymore. A new basketball-only conference would be pretty damn good. Any new league is going to have 9 teams, which makes for a tight 16 game home-and-home schedule. Those 9 teams would be the 7 current BE non-football schools, plus ND, and one other team we'd poach from a lesser conference, and there is only one team that makes sense to me in that role--Xavier. Perenially in the tourney/top 25 despite conference affiliation, great facility, committed fanbase, and a top 50 tv market in Cincy (33rd, one ahead of Milwaukee). The only other team that might make sense is Saint Louis, but for now let's go with Xavier. So the new conference has Georgetown, Nova, ND, Marquette, Xavier, St Johns, PC, Depaul, and SHU. What's not to like? The level of basketball is certainly high at the moment-- 5 of those 9 teams were NCAA tournament teams last year, and as a matter of fact all 5 of 'em made it to the round of 32 as well. And while that level of success may not go on forever, I'd point to the fact that the other 4 schools in the conference can absolutely be tournament teams or better, as they are programs with good areas to recruit ('cept PC) and in major media markets. Are we to believe that nobody is going to come to these games? People seem to say that our new conference is going to be "a glorified mid-major". BS. The level of basket ball in that conference, if it were born today, is on par with the best of the best in the country. And yes, people will come to see games if the teams we are playing are good and nationally respected (ie. ranked). Notre Dame and Villanova always draw at Verizon. Marquette has only been to Verizon once lately but it drew well--granted it was the 100 years ceremony, but most of the people at that game weren't in town for the banquet. Most were there because Marquette was a ranked team and it was thus a big game. The same would happen with Xavier. Xavier doesn't have name appeal to the casual fan, but if they have a number between 1 and 25 next to their name, people will come to the game. SJU, PC, and Depaul will continue to draw poorly until they improve, but that happens with teams like Cincy, Rutgers and USF (the year's worst in-semester attendance, IIRC) as well. The bottomline is, people will come if the teams are good, and people will not come if the teams are bad, and this is true in the current conference or the hypothesized conference. At the moment, the hypothesized conference looks like it'll have some pretty good teams. Which brings us to the final point--can those 9 teams consistently bring in top talent, and can the conference put out a consistently good enough product to stay on tv? I lump these together because I think how often the teams are on tv is one of the biggest factors in consistently recruiting top talent. And I see no reason why this new conference couldn't get a good tv deal and get a lot of top talent. For evidence, look at the old (original) Big East. Sort of a random amalgamation of teams in good markets, a much younger conference than many of it's competitors and without as much basketball tradition. But it had a good tv deal and before you know it all of the top talent in the northeast wanted to play in the Big East. A lot of it is in marketing your league correctly. And with some good marketing, I really think the new conference would thrive.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on May 15, 2008 16:58:27 GMT -5
EDIT: Here's what would be best. Some one gives the Georgetown Football team a couple of million dollars to upgrade the football team and get us to division I status and villinova upgrades itself too. and then we take a conference of Georgetown, Villinova, Uconn, Syracuse, Louisville, Pittsburg, West Virginia, Cinicinatti, and Memphis that conference would be pretty unreal. It'd be pretty cool if we included Notre Dame and or South florida too. Gonna take more than a couple million. I honestly think it would take an act of God for Georgetown to have a Division I football team. We don't even have a functioning scoreboard or permanent stands.
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Post by FromTheBeginning on May 15, 2008 17:24:14 GMT -5
The problem you have with adding a football school (without subtracting one) is it moves the football schools to only one school away from the 10 necessary to split into 2 divisions and have a championship game. That's the tipping point for breaking off from the basketball only schools. The only problem with that scenario is whether the BE football schools have enough drawing power to draw a sponsor to finance a championship game. South Florida vs. Rutgers is not going to wow anyone. Also, where would you play it? There are no domes in any of the football cities except Syracuse, and that is not an option. That leaves playing it in Florida every year or in a non BE city. That's a tough sell. And I don't think anyone will go for a team having a home game on campus. By the way, I think SFU is higher up the football ladder than Memphis right now.
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moe09
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Post by moe09 on May 15, 2008 17:26:57 GMT -5
Woooo a conference split thread I didn't think we'd have one this early. I also wouldn't mind seeing us drop one football and one basketball school like droping south florida and depaul. So the new conference has Georgetown, Nova, ND, Marquette, Xavier, St Johns, PC, Depaul, and SHU. What's not to like? The level of basketball is certainly high at the moment-- 5 of those 9 teams were NCAA tournament teams last year, and as a matter of fact all 5 of 'em made it to the round of 32 as well. And while that level of success may not go on forever, I'd point to the fact that the other 4 schools in the conference can absolutely be tournament teams or better, as they are programs with good areas to recruit ('cept PC) and in major media markets. Are we to believe that nobody is going to come to these games? People seem to say that our new conference is going to be "a glorified mid-major". BS. The level of basket ball in that conference, if it were born today, is on par with the best of the best in the country. And yes, people will come to see games if the teams we are playing are good and nationally respected (ie. ranked). Notre Dame and Villanova always draw at Verizon. Marquette has only been to Verizon once lately but it drew well--granted it was the 100 years ceremony, but most of the people at that game weren't in town for the banquet. Most were there because Marquette was a ranked team and it was thus a big game. The same would happen with Xavier. Xavier doesn't have name appeal to the casual fan, but if they have a number between 1 and 25 next to their name, people will come to the game. SJU, PC, and Depaul will continue to draw poorly until they improve, but that happens with teams like Cincy, Rutgers and USF (the year's worst in-semester attendance, IIRC) as well. The bottomline is, people will come if the teams are good, and people will not come if the teams are bad, and this is true in the current conference or the hypothesized conference. At the moment, the hypothesized conference looks like it'll have some pretty good teams. Which brings us to the final point--can those 9 teams consistently bring in top talent, and can the conference put out a consistently good enough product to stay on tv? I lump these together because I think how often the teams are on tv is one of the biggest factors in consistently recruiting top talent. And I see no reason why this new conference couldn't get a good tv deal and get a lot of top talent. For evidence, look at the old (original) Big East. Sort of a random amalgamation of teams in good markets, a much younger conference than many of it's competitors and without as much basketball tradition. But it had a good tv deal and before you know it all of the top talent in the northeast wanted to play in the Big East. A lot of it is in marketing your league correctly. And with some good marketing, I really think the new conference would thrive. I'm sorry, RB, while the new conference would be a fairly good D-I conference, I concede that point, it would be absolute crap compared to the Big East right now. If you think that the new conference would bring anywhere near the fans and attention that the Big East does right now you're deluding yourself. Just look at these teams. ND? OK, people are interested because it's a name, but the fact is they've been highly overrated of late. Villanova? Probably the only real "big" name in basketball besides Georgetown that would be in this conference. Marquette? Definitely not heading up at the moment. Xavier is a nice mid major, but the rest of this conference is garbage with no prospects for the near future., No Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, Louisville, WVU? Without all of the really big rivalries = Boring. I love to hate these teams (well, I don't hate Pitt, but that's neither here nor there). Can I learn to hate Providence? Not really... Could I really hate Marquette? Doubtable, especially not without Coach Diet Pepsi. Fact is, you've got some markets there, sure, but you have to have rivalries, and that Conference wouldn't have nearly the amount of rivalries we have now. There simply isn't too much intrigue. No clash of the titans. We'd definitely be on the losing side of that split. I guess we could just call it the Little East. So yeah, it wouldn't be horrible, but it's crap in comparison to the "real" Big East.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on May 15, 2008 17:37:39 GMT -5
I would think that USF might be interested in switching out of the Big East for geographic reasons. They probably have some of the highest travel costs in the country for all their sports put together. If they can get into a competitive conference closer to home they'd probably jump at the opportunity.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on May 15, 2008 17:39:39 GMT -5
EDIT: Here's what would be best. Some one gives the Georgetown Football team a couple of million dollars to upgrade the football team and get us to division I status and villinova upgrades itself too. and then we take a conference of Georgetown, Villinova, Uconn, Syracuse, Louisville, Pittsburg, West Virginia, Cinicinatti, and Memphis that conference would be pretty unreal. It'd be pretty cool if we included Notre Dame and or South florida too. Gonna take more than a couple million. I honestly think it would take an act of God for Georgetown to have a Division I football team. We don't even have a functioning scoreboard or permanent stands. ooooooooo, this sounds like the start of a facilities thread!!
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lichoya68
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Post by lichoya68 on May 15, 2008 18:10:54 GMT -5
another team nope ... switching to get mr calipairi nope ... im not a fan.. keep the big east the big east ... sorry... ;D end of story
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Post by strummer8526 on May 15, 2008 19:54:13 GMT -5
another team nope ... switching to get mr calipairi nope ... im not a fan.. keep the big east the big east ... sorry... ;D end of story As the shortest post since the previous page (aka--"the most readable"), I'm going to have to agree with this one. As a side note, there is nothing Georgetown could do to become a quality football team before 2025. Minimum.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 15, 2008 20:57:34 GMT -5
As a side note, there is nothing Georgetown could do to become a quality football team before 2025. Minimum. You really need to do your homework. This team is getting better in a hurry. www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/football.htm#signings
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Post by midsouthhoya on May 15, 2008 23:26:55 GMT -5
I don't think this has been posted, but no surprise that the rumors of BE/UM discussions are being denied: tinyurl.com/4vydmy
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balla
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Post by balla on May 15, 2008 23:37:17 GMT -5
This is the biggest NON story. People from Memphis are just floating this crap, and some people are gullible enough to buy it. If a Big East assistant coach(or Big East area recruit) goes to memphis, then they will be coaching/playing in conference usa and NEVER the Big East.
It would be entertaining to see Calhoun and Calipari try and out cheat each other again like they did when Calipari was at umass, but they will have to continue to cheat in different conferences.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on May 16, 2008 0:06:06 GMT -5
I've been reading the othe big east boards, to see what other schools think especially the football schools. And to sum it up not everyone wants to change the status quo. Most of the people who want a change are really just crying cause they can't hack it in either football or basketball. frankly almost no one thinks this is happening. and most people don't even want any of the schools who's names have been floated around. Most people's solution is either the split or to just kick out certain bball only members.
some interesting alrernate solutions propposed:
1) kick out some bball members get down to 12 member 9 being football with 3 bball only members us, villinova, and another one not sure which.
2) Add a football only member one that just competes in a big east only for football but in nothing else.
3) have ND and another school agree to play home and homes with several big east teams to essentially creating a ninth team with out actually adding a team to the conference.
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moe09
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Post by moe09 on May 16, 2008 2:27:06 GMT -5
As a side note, there is nothing Georgetown could do to become a quality football team before 2025. Minimum. You really need to do your homework. This team is getting better in a hurry. www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/football.htm#signingsNational Rank: none.. National Rank: none... National Rank: none.. National Rank: oooh.. a one star. I'm not trying to insult these guys as I'm sure they're great recruits for Georgetown, and upgrades to the recent past in terms of recruiting, but Strummer is right. We're not heading to the Big East anytime in the near future. If you think we are, please put down the peyote or call 911. Plus, it's not just players that you need to head to the Big East. At least that's what I figured "quality football team" meant in this context.
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lichoya68
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Post by lichoya68 on May 16, 2008 8:01:04 GMT -5
JUST no way
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Post by vamosalaplaya on May 16, 2008 8:47:25 GMT -5
RB's comments about South Florida are right on. The team has a gigantic stadium and at one point this year was ranked in the top 10; the Big East is going to kick them out? A gigantic Florida football school, just as Miami seems to be struggling, as is FSU? I remember thinking that it would have made sense for the Big East to bring on both South Florida and Central Florida (50,000 students, another huge stadium). Florida is one of the top three football playing states in the country and unfortunately the whole issue is that football seems to driving the bus on some of these issues. South Florida is going nowhere.
The major issue that a 'basketball only' conference would face is that the football conference would bundle their football and basketball TV contract and force feed their basketball games down the networks' throats. Of course with UConn, Pitt, Cuse, and West Virginia, there is some pretty good basketball going on there. So access to TV might be tough as they would get in line behind the football conferences. I will add that as the media market - internet games, specialty sports channels, etc - continues to fragment, in the next few years there will be more and more outlets for college hoops.
The major asset a "basketball only" conference has is that many of the schools are in top TV markets where advertisers pay a premium to reach customers. The downside is that the private Catholic schools don't tend to "carry" their markets, even in the best of times (witness Maryland versus GU in DC) and they get ignored in the worst of times. But GU (DC), Nova (Philly), St. Johns (NY) and DePaul (Chicago) represent some serious coverage for the conference in those big markets, which bleeds over to view interest in basketball and even football.
I don't know if this is still the case, but I remember someone writing that the founders of the Big East control the name. So that is the final point. The football guys break off, they have to invent their own name. No way would the Catholic schools want to give that up.
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Post by strummer8526 on May 16, 2008 9:10:34 GMT -5
As a side note, there is nothing Georgetown could do to become a quality football team before 2025. Minimum. You really need to do your homework. This team is getting better in a hurry. www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/football.htm#signingsI'm not even specifically referring to the players. Whatever upgrades in talent we make, I question the University's desire or ability to build on it. Hopefully we AT LEAST field a squad that can take a few W's throughout the season, but a lot more would need to be done to compete at a higher level.
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Madgesdiq
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Post by Madgesdiq on May 16, 2008 9:32:06 GMT -5
I was thrilled that scumbag Calipari was turned down by St. John's when he wanted to replace Satan.
Keep the cheating greaseball out of the Big East at all costs.
The only demographic that would benefit from having Calipari back in the Big East are the jewelers on 47th Street during Big East week.
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