moe09
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,101
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Post by moe09 on May 4, 2008 18:58:54 GMT -5
If he had gone to any other Big East school, he wouldn't be going to the Gators, he'd be collecting that 7 figure pay check. Tell me you're kidding. I, likewise, am waiting for confirmation that this post was a joke... Ha Ha Ha...
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on May 4, 2008 19:45:54 GMT -5
Come on, give Vern a break, he's the ONLY hamburger kid in his class that isn't in the draft, in the pros or a star. If he had gone to any other Big East school, he wouldn't be going to the Gators, he'd be collecting that 7 figure pay check. Turnover happens in all programs, JT and Vern weren't a match made in heaven. Lance thomas, desmond "tweety" carter, and james keefe aren't exactly stars.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,434
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Post by lichoya68 on May 4, 2008 20:04:24 GMT -5
let let him go wish him well even tho i think its not a good move for him ..he woulda started at center WHICH HE IS GUYS NOT A POINT FORWARD and improved and provided great helpto the hoyas he woulda improved his entire game and come out to play and helped us but LETS LEAVE IT AND MOVE ON good luck
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GUMBA
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 737
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Post by GUMBA on May 4, 2008 21:21:51 GMT -5
VM has one huge problem. He can't shoot. He can't shoot from the line, he can't shoot the three, he can't shoot from the elbow and he can't shoot from five feet away from the rim. I don't care how much you can run, jump and jam, if you are 6'9" tall and can't shoot, you don't make it as a forward in the NBA. bmartin has it exactly right. Florida is going to spend the next year trying to teach him how to shoot. My guess is that if he doesn't have touch at almost 22 years of age, he won't suddenly develop it in Gainsville. I won't root against him but I think his transfer won't change much regarding his pro prospects. The quote from his Hargrave Coach in the Gainsville Sun about his ability to score on the perimeter is rich.
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royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,285
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Post by royski on May 4, 2008 21:26:49 GMT -5
Respectfully disagree good sir. I believe that while The Vern will never be a lights out shooter by any stretch of the imagination, a year of work on developing a jump shot for somebody as naturally athletic as Macklin will do much good. For Vern to make the NBA, he needs to develop a nice face up jumper with range that extends to the elbow. He needs to become an intimidating defensive force in the paint, altering and blocking nearly anything that flies near him. He needs to rebound as well as his frame and athleticism suggest that he's able to. He needs to improve his back to the basket game to at least Herbert Hill levels.
Is it likely that Mack puts that all together? Hell no. But its not impossible, and if he does, a team will take a chance on a former all-american with that package, and they'll take that chance in round 1.
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Post by strummer8526 on May 4, 2008 21:52:20 GMT -5
Actual question here: When we all (and I've done it too) refer to Vern as "athletic" (or "ultra athletic" if the mood for hyperbole strikes you), what are we talking about? For a big man, he can run. He can jump. He can......To what else are we referring when this athleticism stuff starts?
Like I imagine jump-shooting...either you can do it or you can't. I play pick up games w/ a bunch of short skinny kids who have smooth looking jumpers. Maybe they can't run like Vern, but I just sense that there's a difference b/t what we're talking about Vernon being able to do now and what "natural athleticism" means you could do in the future. How do his abilities translate to a jump shot in a year?
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hoyaLS05
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,652
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Post by hoyaLS05 on May 4, 2008 22:49:48 GMT -5
I'm no huge fan of Vern, but let me make an (admittedly flawed) comparison:
A 6-foot-8/9 forward who can jump out of the gym decides to go to a school that many think is a strange choice. After two disappointing years -- during which some say he was not properly utilized -- he decides to transfer. No one questions his athleticism but most wonder whether he really has a future in pro ball. After sitting out a year and struggling for the first half of the next season, he begins to thrive in the new system. It seems to fit his skill set perfectly. While he doesn't become a star, he distinguishes himself as good enough at several different things and after his senior year -- and at nearly 24 years of age -- many think he has a reasonable chance to play in the NBA.
Sound familiar? It should to everyone. It's Pat. Now, that is certainly not a perfect comparison. But I'd bet Indiana fans were talking about Pat three years ago similarly to the way some people around here are talking about Vernon.
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Post by hoyalawyer on May 4, 2008 23:09:35 GMT -5
I'm no huge fan of Vern, but let me make an (admittedly flawed) comparison: A 6-foot-8/9 forward who can jump out of the gym decides to go to a school that many think is a strange choice. After two disappointing years -- during which some say he was not properly utilized -- he decides to transfer. No one questions his athleticism but most wonder whether he really has a future in pro ball. After sitting out a year and struggling for the first half of the next season, he begins to thrive in the new system. It seems to fit his skill set perfectly. While he doesn't become a star, he distinguishes himself as good enough at several different things and after his senior year -- and at nearly 24 years of age -- many think he has a reasonable chance to play in the NBA. Sound familiar? It should to everyone. It's Pat. Now, that is certainly not a perfect comparison. But I'd bet Indiana fans were talking about Pat three years ago similarly to the way some people around here are talking about Vernon. great point... I'm all for an efficient-business-model. I.e. a happy worker is an efficient worker, and an unhappy one won't be efficient. On that principle why would we want to keep someone that is unhappy here? It couldn't end up being very productive in the end. Vern left because Vern didn't fit in here (whether by personal choice, system, city, campus etc. etc...). He didn't want to be here for whatever reason and as an efficient system, Georgetown Basketball will be better off in the end, and maybe the same thing will happen for Vern. Lawyer
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Z
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 409
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Post by Z on May 5, 2008 0:27:59 GMT -5
strummer, big difference is that PEII was throwing down dunks that were youtube worthy before he "got good." macklin is an awkward tall guy that lives off a HS "althletic" rep and a McD AA slot, neither of which seem deserved in retrospect. i hope VM proves us all wrong, but i'm not holding my breath. unfortunately VM lacks the basic shooting touch you need to have a future as an NBA "project." i cant see teams lining up to draft rail thin guys with no offensive game whatsoever to fill the 13th spot on the roster.
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royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,285
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Post by royski on May 5, 2008 0:37:38 GMT -5
He lacks the height to be an NBA project far more than he lacks the shooting touch. If Mack had 3 more inches, he'd be drafted this year by some team and thrown in the D league.
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Post by bbb71 on May 5, 2008 0:42:08 GMT -5
I'm going to miss Vern. I thought he showed a lot of improvment on the offensive side of the ball. Not that he was great mind you, but there was some noticeable progress. And while he was not a great defensive presence down low, he was pretty disruptive jumping out to help on screens...if i remember correctly, he Blocked Curry at least once and had a nice steal in the Davidson game. Plus, a team can never have enough frontcourt bodies.
I liked the idea of the Pat analogy as well. However, as Z implied, I think Vern's supreme athletic abilities are more high school myth than reality. While he is quick and athletic for a 6'9 guy, his athleticism isn't special. He's no Tyrus Thomas. Pat has more potential than Vern in large part because he is a more explosive athlete, not too mention his better all-around skills.
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HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
Posts: 4,989
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Post by HoyaFanNY on May 5, 2008 7:14:09 GMT -5
he's officially gone now. time to stop wasting board space on a player no longer on our team.
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Post by strummer8526 on May 5, 2008 8:17:00 GMT -5
he's officially gone now. time to stop wasting board space on a player no longer on our team. Yeah there are more important things to talk about now, like.... ?
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moe09
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,101
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Post by moe09 on May 5, 2008 8:43:22 GMT -5
he's officially gone now. time to stop wasting board space on a player no longer on our team. Yeah there are more important things to talk about now, like.... ? Haha, exactly.
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Post by Hoya TMF on May 5, 2008 8:58:38 GMT -5
ugh. when does kenner league start?!
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on May 5, 2008 9:22:17 GMT -5
I'm no huge fan of Vern, but let me make an (admittedly flawed) comparison: A 6-foot-8/9 forward who can jump out of the gym decides to go to a school that many think is a strange choice. After two disappointing years -- during which some say he was not properly utilized -- he decides to transfer. No one questions his athleticism but most wonder whether he really has a future in pro ball. After sitting out a year and struggling for the first half of the next season, he begins to thrive in the new system. It seems to fit his skill set perfectly. While he doesn't become a star, he distinguishes himself as good enough at several different things and after his senior year -- and at nearly 24 years of age -- many think he has a reasonable chance to play in the NBA. Sound familiar? It should to everyone. It's Pat. Now, that is certainly not a perfect comparison. But I'd bet Indiana fans were talking about Pat three years ago similarly to the way some people around here are talking about Vernon. I dunno I think pat did a little better in his two years at indiana than vernon did here. I think pat showed he had the skills to be a good player while vern has not. a little comparison. Vernon: SEASON MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF 2006-2007 9.8 2.9 1.5 .5 .5 1.00 .0 .1 1.0 FG% FT% 3P% PPS .741 .435 .000 1.67 SEASON MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF 2007-2008 12.8 3.4 2.1 .6 .8 .85 .2 .7 1.7 FG% FT% 3P% PPS .598 .250 .000 1.33 SEASON MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF 2003-2004 11.8 2.8 3.6 .2 .9 .25 .5 .6 2.3 FG% FT% 3P% PPS .525 .481 1.000 1.28 SEASON MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF 2004-2005 16.0 4.0 3.8 .8 1.1 .67 .7 .6 2.6 FG% FT% 3P% PPS .477 .574 .333 1.33 So pat scored more, rebounded more, dished out more assists, had more steals, overall averaged more blocks, and proved to be an adept shooter. your point is still valid, but i feel like pat had shown more at the same point in his career.
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moe09
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,101
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Post by moe09 on May 5, 2008 9:25:20 GMT -5
Good luck, Buff, I'm still waiting for this magical PM. Why can't we just create a thread for specifically speculative rumors? It would be much easier. Here's to hoping freemoney hasn't gone the way of haydenmac. I hear it's cold under the George Washington Bridge...
Oh, and to keep this on topic... uh... Vernon was.. um... well, he's not going to be any good at Florida. Yes, that should do...
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,459
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Post by bmartin on May 5, 2008 9:35:47 GMT -5
Ewing has a motor with a couple of intensity gears that Macklin does not have or at least has not shown.
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moe09
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,101
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Post by moe09 on May 5, 2008 9:36:19 GMT -5
Oh, c'mon. He scored all of -.1 and .6 points more in more minutes. .5 and .5 steals more. .5 and -.1 blocks more. Outrebounded him by about 2 each season. If we're really going to split hairs here, though, which it seems we are.. then Vern had a better A/T ratio, and a much better FG%. To say that Pat was that much better than Vern in his first two seasons at Indiana statistically is a bit of a stretch...
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,419
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Post by the_way on May 5, 2008 9:59:28 GMT -5
could someone PM me about the locked thread too?
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