RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Apr 30, 2008 13:28:26 GMT -5
Get off your high horse about what/where Vernon chooses to do--it's HIS LIFE--not ours as fans. If he wants to transfer and think he'd enjoy his life/have more fun playing basketball somewhere else--that's HIS right. Did you ever think he figures he might not make the NBA, so why not go somewhere he can have fun playing? Or is that too "simple" of me to think he might actually have some ideas that aren't "anti-Georgetown" as much as just wanting to find something that fits what is best for HIM?
The guy chose Georgetown, he helped the team when given an opportunity and for some reason a bunch of people who NEVER saw him play in HS thought he was Alonzo Mourning. I've said on here numerous times--he's not going to be a 1 and done candidate and he needed a lot of work--but for some reason the "hype" of the McDonalds All American game, his ranking, etc... got to the fans heads and some of you expected Zo-like player.
I hope Vern enjoys his college experience more at next stop, hope he flourishes on the court, and if he develops into a solid player/makes great leap in his skill level/game--good for him. If he doesn't develop on the court, but gets his degree and is happy--good for him. Quit acting like he's "ruined his life for good" by leaving Georgetown. Sometimes it's just not a fit for certain guys--sometimes it could be a mistake or it could be a benefit--main thing is--it's HIS LIFE.
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Post by Hoya TMF on Apr 30, 2008 13:29:53 GMT -5
Stafford, To me, "smug" is cheering your team of mercenaries on to the Final 4 (or, Round of 32 in our case) and then not giving a crap about the kids who are being used to get us there. To suggest that Vernon Macklin will be better off at Clemson or the like is really puzzling to me. The reality is that he is NOT going to play pro basketball and he's going to have to find a big boy job like the rest of us in two years. The idea that he's somehow going to have a better chance of success in getting a degree and then leveraging it after two years at Clemson is just not reasonable. how do you "know" any of this? did anyone think jeff was going to be a top five pick when he came to gu, or even after his freshman year? certainly no one thought roy would be a first rounder, which he almost certainly will be in about a month. ticket may start at another school in a really up tempo offense and develop a face up/outside game in his year off the court. who knows? lots of kids come out of no-where and shoot up the draft boards. especially if they are on a team like florida, which could do damage in the tourney two years from now. academically, it might sound like a silly move, but that's debatable as well. lots of jobs are won based on personal connections and networking. now ticket is privy to two networks rather than just one, even if his ties to Georgetown are now shaky. he may also see transferring as a means to get a fresh start academically or to declare a major that's more interesting to him and not offered at gu. and even if those thigsn don't pan out, and he has made a "bad" decision, it doesn't mean that his motivations are not in the right place.
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Post by 98hoya on Apr 30, 2008 13:30:48 GMT -5
DHall,
I'm making no assumptions about his grades, but I am assuming that Vernon is in college to get an education. Our student-athletes are students first. That's something our athletic department insists upon (or at least, in their public face they do), so I'm giving Vernon the benefit of the doubt that he buys into that philosophy. That's also why it's so puzzling to me that he's considering transferring to this particular list of schools.
For those who don't believe our student-athletes should be "students first," then I think we have a fundamental disagreement about the purpose of an education and the appropriateness of exploitation of young black men for financial gain and entertainment.
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Apr 30, 2008 13:34:36 GMT -5
Vernon's transferring over our lack of an on-campus arena. It's pretty obvious.
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Post by 98hoya on Apr 30, 2008 13:35:20 GMT -5
Stafford, To me, "smug" is cheering your team of mercenaries on to the Final 4 (or, Round of 32 in our case) and then not giving a crap about the kids who are being used to get us there. To suggest that Vernon Macklin will be better off at Clemson or the like is really puzzling to me. The reality is that he is NOT going to play pro basketball and he's going to have to find a big boy job like the rest of us in two years. The idea that he's somehow going to have a better chance of success in getting a degree and then leveraging it after two years at Clemson is just not reasonable. how do you "know" any of this? did anyone think jeff was going to be a top five pick when he came to gu, or even after his freshman year? certainly no one thought roy would be a first rounder, which he almost certainly will be in about a month. ticket may start at another school in a really up tempo offense and develop a face up/outside game in his year off the court. who knows? lots of kids come out of no-where and shoot up the draft boards. especially if they are on a team like florida, which could do damage in the tourney two years from now. academically, it might sound like a silly move, but that's debatable as well. lots of jobs are won based on personal connections and networking. now ticket is privy to two networks rather than just one, even if his ties to Georgetown are now shaky. he may also see transferring as a means to get a fresh start academically or to declare a major that's more interesting to him and not offered at gu. and even if those thigsn don't pan out, and he has made a "bad" decision, it doesn't mean that his motivations are not in the right place. Tell you what, Hoya0206: I'll bet you a $250 donation to the Georgetown scholarship fund that Vernon Macklin will not be drafted by an NBA team or otherwise make an NBA roster the year after he finishes college. Loser sends a check to G'town in the winner's honor. I recognize that this is a long-term deal, and it will require honor on both of our parts. I'm good for it. You'll also have the opportunity to call me out 3 years from now if you're correct because I've been posting on this board for years and plan to continue to do so. Are you game? As for the academic part - I hope it pans out for him. It might, it's just that he's making it harder on himself by making this switch.
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Post by w3wa on Apr 30, 2008 13:38:26 GMT -5
"To me, "smug" is cheering your team of mercenaries on to the Final 4 (or, Round of 32 in our case) and then not giving a crap about the kids who are being used to get us there."
I recommend you purchase a dictionary.
Also, please stop equating Florida with Clemson. Florida is a much better school.
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Post by w3wa on Apr 30, 2008 13:41:04 GMT -5
"Our student-athletes are students first."
Give me a break. Big time college basketball is primarily a minor league. All McDonalds All-Americans are athletes first. Quality of academic institution is a secondary concern.
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Post by Hoya TMF on Apr 30, 2008 13:41:58 GMT -5
again, your problem is that you don't seem to see any value in transferring to a "less prestigious" school. non-athletes do it all the time, for a multitude of different reasons. if someone is unhappy at a school for whatever reason, they are probably less likely to perform as well, whether its in the classroom or on the basketball court.
i don't know if that's the reason ticket transferred, but if you believe that ticket is a "student first," then its as plausible as any other reason.
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Post by Hilltopper on Apr 30, 2008 13:44:29 GMT -5
I think it would great if people did not make asumptions as to the pre-admissions qualifications and grades of young men.
As someone who has coached for quite some time, I know that there are a lot of wonderful students, incredibly hard workers who are stigmatized by "fans", reporters, and teachers because they are tall and black.
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Post by 98hoya on Apr 30, 2008 13:44:30 GMT -5
"To me, "smug" is cheering your team of mercenaries on to the Final 4 (or, Round of 32 in our case) and then not giving a crap about the kids who are being used to get us there." I recommend you purchase a dictionary. Also, please stop equating Florida with Clemson. Florida is a much better school. Ah, the typo-attack. Good for you w3wa, you really made a good point. It's been some time since I worked for Blackwater, so my spelling of words like "mercenary" is a little off. I agree: Florida is a much better school than Clemson, but let's not act is if we believe academic excellence is a consideration among the options.
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Post by 98hoya on Apr 30, 2008 13:45:06 GMT -5
I think it would great if people did not make asumptions as to the pre-admissions qualifications and grades of young men. As someone who has coached for quite some time, I know that there are a lot of wonderful students, incredibly hard workers who are stigmatized by "fans", reporters, and teachers because they are tall and black. I concur.
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Post by 98hoya on Apr 30, 2008 13:47:00 GMT -5
"Our student-athletes are students first." Give me a break. Big time college basketball is primarily a minor league. All McDonalds All-Americans are athletes first. Quality of academic institution is a secondary concern. On my bad days I agree, and when I do feel that way, I question how I can enjoy the exploitation of these young black people so much when their connection to Georgetown isn't all that much different than Jeff Gordon's connection to his NASCAR sponsors.
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Post by w3wa on Apr 30, 2008 13:49:25 GMT -5
No, I was referring to your definition of "smug."
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Post by 98hoya on Apr 30, 2008 13:51:54 GMT -5
Get off your high horse about what/where Vernon chooses to do--it's HIS LIFE--not ours as fans. If he wants to transfer and think he'd enjoy his life/have more fun playing basketball somewhere else--that's HIS right. Did you ever think he figures he might not make the NBA, so why not go somewhere he can have fun playing? Or is that too "simple" of me to think he might actually have some ideas that aren't "anti-Georgetown" as much as just wanting to find something that fits what is best for HIM? The guy chose Georgetown, he helped the team when given an opportunity and for some reason a bunch of people who NEVER saw him play in HS thought he was Alonzo Mourning. I've said on here numerous times--he's not going to be a 1 and done candidate and he needed a lot of work--but for some reason the "hype" of the McDonalds All American game, his ranking, etc... got to the fans heads and some of you expected Zo-like player. I hope Vern enjoys his college experience more at next stop, hope he flourishes on the court, and if he develops into a solid player/makes great leap in his skill level/game--good for him. If he doesn't develop on the court, but gets his degree and is happy--good for him. Quit acting like he's "ruined his life for good" by leaving Georgetown. Sometimes it's just not a fit for certain guys--sometimes it could be a mistake or it could be a benefit--main thing is--it's HIS LIFE. Absolutely. It's his life. I hope the baseless assumptions you're making are correct. I'm making my assumption based on the existing evidence that like so many others that have come before him, he's grabbing at a brass ring that's not there. Hey, it's Victor Paige's life. We sure helped that guy out. He sure owes Georgetown one.
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Post by 98hoya on Apr 30, 2008 13:53:28 GMT -5
No, I was referring to your definition of "smug." And by using "smug," I was paraphrasing Stafford's use of the term in a prior post. I hope my spelling and grammar is otherwise OK with you.
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Post by Hoya TMF on Apr 30, 2008 13:57:46 GMT -5
how do you "know" any of this? did anyone think jeff was going to be a top five pick when he came to gu, or even after his freshman year? certainly no one thought roy would be a first rounder, which he almost certainly will be in about a month. ticket may start at another school in a really up tempo offense and develop a face up/outside game in his year off the court. who knows? lots of kids come out of no-where and shoot up the draft boards. especially if they are on a team like florida, which could do damage in the tourney two years from now. academically, it might sound like a silly move, but that's debatable as well. lots of jobs are won based on personal connections and networking. now ticket is privy to two networks rather than just one, even if his ties to Georgetown are now shaky. he may also see transferring as a means to get a fresh start academically or to declare a major that's more interesting to him and not offered at gu. and even if those thigsn don't pan out, and he has made a "bad" decision, it doesn't mean that his motivations are not in the right place. Tell you what, Hoya0206: I'll bet you a $250 donation to the Georgetown scholarship fund that Vernon Macklin will not be drafted by an NBA team or otherwise make an NBA roster the year after he finishes college. Loser sends a check to G'town in the winner's honor. I recognize that this is a long-term deal, and it will require honor on both of our parts. I'm good for it. You'll also have the opportunity to call me out 3 years from now if you're correct because I've been posting on this board for years and plan to continue to do so. Are you game? As for the academic part - I hope it pans out for him. It might, it's just that he's making it harder on himself by making this switch. No, I'm not game. And the reason why you've made such a ridiculous bet is because you clearly don't understand my point. You said that Ticket was not going to play pro ball. I said I don't know anything for sure, but that it's possible. He may get drafted by an NBA team, but he may not. Who knows? I don't know what's going to happen and because I don't I'm not willing to make a stupid bet on an internet talk board. Let's say he plays in Europe for a few years, (which still is "pro" ball) and gets picked up for the league minimum. It's still a pretty good investment given the league minimum in 2010-11 will be nearly $500K and increases every year. www.insidehoops.com/minimum-nba-salary.shtmlStill, as RDF said, this decision may have nothing to do with money or the NBA. Maybe he just wanted to play for a different coach in a different system or wanted a different academic environment. If you believe that ticket is a student first, then shouldn't you also beleive that the NBA/money was not the absis for this decision?
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aggypryd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,418
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Post by aggypryd on Apr 30, 2008 14:06:30 GMT -5
I think Vernon could really shine at both of those schools.
Take a year off to get that free throw stroke perfect.
Disappointed to see him go, but I'd really like to see him at Clemson or Georgia Tech.
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Post by 98hoya on Apr 30, 2008 14:11:39 GMT -5
Tell you what, Hoya0206: I'll bet you a $250 donation to the Georgetown scholarship fund that Vernon Macklin will not be drafted by an NBA team or otherwise make an NBA roster the year after he finishes college. Loser sends a check to G'town in the winner's honor. I recognize that this is a long-term deal, and it will require honor on both of our parts. I'm good for it. You'll also have the opportunity to call me out 3 years from now if you're correct because I've been posting on this board for years and plan to continue to do so. Are you game? As for the academic part - I hope it pans out for him. It might, it's just that he's making it harder on himself by making this switch. No, I'm not game. And the reason why you've made such a ridiculous bet is because you clearly don't understand my point. You said that Ticket was not going to play pro ball. I said I don't know anything for sure, but that it's possible. He may get drafted by an NBA team, but he may not. Who knows? I don't know what's going to happen and because I don't I'm not willing to make a stupid bet on an internet talk board. Let's say he plays in Europe for a few years, (which still is "pro" ball) and gets picked up for the league minimum. It's still a pretty good investment given the league minimum in 2010-11 will be nearly $500K and increases every year. www.insidehoops.com/minimum-nba-salary.shtmlStill, as RDF said, this decision may have nothing to do with money or the NBA. Maybe he just wanted to play for a different coach in a different system or wanted a different academic environment. If you believe that ticket is a student first, then shouldn't you also beleive that the NBA/money was not the absis for this decision? Maybe I should share a little more about why I'm so passionate about this. I teach in an urban public school. My students are 75% black, about 20% "other" minority and 5% white. I've taught in the 'burbs too, and the kids are equally as intelligent in the city, although on the whole my current students are SIGNIFICANTLY less sophisticated about what education can do for them. When I ask my sophomores: what is your plan for your career? More than half say rapper or pro athlete. It's truly sad and unbelievable (and sadly stereotypical). By senior year, about 1/3 of the class has dropped out (my school actually has a relatively low dropout rate comparatively). Disproportionately represented in that 1/3 are the kids who are going to be pro ball players or rappers. I can't tell you how hard I've tried to simultaneously teach them to follow their dreams and also to choose the right dreams to follow. Too many are just incapable of getting it (or I'm incapable of getting through to them). So, true, I don't know Vernon's deal. But I've heard a similar backstory many, many times at the high school level. Everyone's going to make a change and get that brass ring, but it never seems to work out that way. I hope it does for Vernon.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Apr 30, 2008 14:20:18 GMT -5
Get off your high horse about what/where Vernon chooses to do--it's HIS LIFE--not ours as fans. If he wants to transfer and think he'd enjoy his life/have more fun playing basketball somewhere else--that's HIS right. Did you ever think he figures he might not make the NBA, so why not go somewhere he can have fun playing? Or is that too "simple" of me to think he might actually have some ideas that aren't "anti-Georgetown" as much as just wanting to find something that fits what is best for HIM? The guy chose Georgetown, he helped the team when given an opportunity and for some reason a bunch of people who NEVER saw him play in HS thought he was Alonzo Mourning. I've said on here numerous times--he's not going to be a 1 and done candidate and he needed a lot of work--but for some reason the "hype" of the McDonalds All American game, his ranking, etc... got to the fans heads and some of you expected Zo-like player. I hope Vern enjoys his college experience more at next stop, hope he flourishes on the court, and if he develops into a solid player/makes great leap in his skill level/game--good for him. If he doesn't develop on the court, but gets his degree and is happy--good for him. Quit acting like he's "ruined his life for good" by leaving Georgetown. Sometimes it's just not a fit for certain guys--sometimes it could be a mistake or it could be a benefit--main thing is--it's HIS LIFE. Absolutely. It's his life. I hope the baseless assumptions you're making are correct. I'm making my assumption based on the existing evidence that like so many others that have come before him, he's grabbing at a brass ring that's not there. Hey, it's Victor Paige's life. We sure helped that guy out. He sure owes Georgetown one. How long have you been a fan of Georgetown Basketball? Do you understand how college sports operate? I'll let you in on a secret--Victor Page was brought in and "helped by Georgetown" because he was a talented player who could put Hoyas over top and make them contend for a National Title. If he was not capable of playing, he'd not have been "helped" by the University. I won't go into Vic's background, but it's a mutal thing--Georgetown gave Vic a shot and he gave them a shot to win and be on big stage again. That's life in big time athletics. Some of you guys are coming off as if Georgetown is in a pollyanna society--where they only recruit kids who are great students and put what is best for the student athlete ahead of all. It's still a major CBB program whose prime objective is to WIN. Macklin wasn't coveted for his ability to recite the works of Frederick Douglass or Martin Luther King, he was brought in to help the program win basketball games. Now the Georgetown experience is available to any young man who enters the program--but your academic experience in college or social experience is only what YOU put into it--you can succeed anywhere and nobody is going to say "Vernon Macklin transferred from Georgetown and went to Florida, I won't hire him...." Vernon made a decision based on what he/program felt was best--he moved on--Georgetown moved on. So many of you act like this was a shot at Georgetown-it's not-it's part of big time athletics and you have to get used to it if you plan on seeing Hoyas continue to compete for Big East and National Championships. Didn't see this type of commentary when PE JR transferred TO Georgetown from Indiana. It's about what the program/players feel is in their best interest for the future and I'm just sick of the shots being fired and the arrogance of the Georgetown "educational experience" being used against players who decide to leave. Nobody has mentioned Vernon was in grade trouble--did he not qualify academically? Did he not play both years without missing a game? I'm done with this now--and just hope something else happens because it's beyond frustrating to see the viewpoints and self centered fan viewpoints on what is best for someone you only know as "#1, backup Center Vernon Macklin".
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Post by Hoya TMF on Apr 30, 2008 14:23:18 GMT -5
I can understand where you're coming from, but I'd be more concerned if Summers, for instance, said he was leaving early to enter the draft. Ticket is transferring to another school where, in order to realistically pursue the NBA, he would have to complete at least another two years of schooling. Assuming he's in good academic standing at GU and goes on to graduate from wherever he ends up, he's still done pretty well for himself while also attempting to grab the brass ring. As mentioned by several others, this may end up being a good move for him both academically as well as athletically. We shall see.
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