macklin and gators

[hoyas2006]

just saw this on scout:

The Florida Gators moved quickly on former Georgetown big man Vernon Macklin. According to multiple sources, Macklin is set to visit Florida.
The teams competing for Macklin are the Clemson Tigers and Billy Donovan’s Gators. Macklin, who has two years of eligibility remaining after sitting out a season, will visit the Gators beginning Thursday.

[Boz]

Oh, Jebus.

Now we'll never get rid of hifi.

[HeartAttackHoya]

talk about downgrading on academic institutions

[rkerby15]

I mentioned that he was looking at Florida in the Nebraska thread, so I guess it is true

[98hoya]

Apr 30, 2008 9:34:22 GMT -5 HeartAttackHoya said:

talk about downgrading on academic institutions

It's odd, I mean, the guy isn't a fit at Georgetown so you think like the rest of his classmates he'd be interested in transferring to a peer institution to continue to work toward his degree (which is, after all, the primary goal for all of our students). When is he visiting UPenn and Cornell?

I hate when stuff like this happens and reminds me just how hypocritical bigtime college athletics are.

[showcase]

I'm surprised hifi isn't here already, pontificating on the merits of Macklin becoming a Gator, and how much better he would be in that program.

For the first and perhaps only time in my life, I'm rooting for Clemson on this one.

Ultimately, I hope Macklin prospers wherever he ends up (unless it's at the Hoyas's expense), but Florida would probably be a bit much to stomach.

[Hoya TMF]

Are there really that many of our "peer" universities with basketball programs that would serve the dual purpose of increasing Ticket's basketball opportunities/exposure for the NBA?

Duke, Carolina, UCLA and Stanford are probably not interested. ND is totally undesirable. Michigan is a bad basketball program. No one from the Ivy league gets drafted any more, and the Ivies have more stringent admissions policies for athletes. The Butlers and the Davidsons might be somewhat of a happy medium, but they don't send a lot of players to the NBA either. Where else is there?

[TigerHoya]

Apr 30, 2008 10:48:36 GMT -5 showcase said:

I'm surprised hifi isn't here already, pontificating on the merits of Macklin becoming a Gator, and how much better he would be in that program.

For the first and perhaps only time in my life, I'm rooting for Clemson on this one.

I'll still be here wherever Macklin goes, even if it isn't Clemson


Update: hearing that Painter and Macklin are a package deal.

[98hoya]

Apr 30, 2008 10:54:39 GMT -5 Hoya TMF said:

Are there really that many of our "peer" universities with basketball programs that would serve the dual purpose of increasing Ticket's basketball opportunities/exposure for the NBA?

Duke, Carolina, UCLA and Stanford are probably not interested. ND is totally undesirable. Michigan is a bad basketball program. No one from the Ivy league gets drafted any more, and the Ivies have more stringent admissions policies for athletes. The Butlers and the Davidsons might be somewhat of a happy medium, but they don't send a lot of players to the NBA either. Where else is there?

I'm afraid you missed my point, which was: many major college athletes (with several notable exceptions, who deserve more recognition) attend college only with the goal of playing pro sports. As a result, they are totally indifferent to the academic reputation of where they go to college. That attitude seems to be playing itself out with the schools to which Vernon is considering bringing his services.

I don't know Vernon, so I can't claim to know the whole story. But if his motivations are what I suspect (and I think you suspect too), someone who cares about him should shake him very, very hard and then tell him that he should really consider what he's going to do after his two year stint playing pro basketball in Bolivia ends.
To the extent Vernon doesn't understand why it's so important to take academic opportunity seriously and think beyond basketball, I suggest he arrange a meeting with Victor Page during visiting hours.

[Dhall]

Apr 30, 2008 12:02:09 GMT -5 @98hoya said:

Apr 30, 2008 10:54:39 GMT -5 Hoya TMF said:

Are there really that many of our "peer" universities with basketball programs that would serve the dual purpose of increasing Ticket's basketball opportunities/exposure for the NBA?

Duke, Carolina, UCLA and Stanford are probably not interested. ND is totally undesirable. Michigan is a bad basketball program. No one from the Ivy league gets drafted any more, and the Ivies have more stringent admissions policies for athletes. The Butlers and the Davidsons might be somewhat of a happy medium, but they don't send a lot of players to the NBA either. Where else is there?

I'm afraid you missed my point, which was: many major college athletes (with several notable exceptions, who deserve more recognition) attend college only with the goal of playing pro sports. As a result, they are totally indifferent to the academic reputation of where they go to college. That attitude seems to be playing itself out with the schools to which Vernon is considering bringing his services.

I don't know Vernon, so I can't claim to know the whole story. But if his motivations are what I suspect (and I think you suspect too), someone who cares about him should shake him very, very hard and then tell him that he should really consider what he's going to do after his two year stint playing pro basketball in Bolivia ends.
To the extent Vernon doesn't understand why it's so important to take academic opportunity seriously and think beyond basketball, I suggest he arrange a meeting with Victor Page during visiting hours.

There are a lot of idiots that have graduated from Georgetown and there are plenty of really bright people at schools like Florida or Clemson who might not have the money to afford Georgetown or have other factors influencing them (like maybe an undergraduate science or engineering program worth attending). I can say this having graduated from Georgetown, so get off the high horse.

[jgalt]

Apr 30, 2008 10:54:39 GMT -5 Hoya TMF said:

Are there really that many of our "peer" universities with basketball programs that would serve the dual purpose of increasing Ticket's basketball opportunities/exposure for the NBA?

Duke, Carolina, UCLA and Stanford are probably not interested. ND is totally undesirable. Michigan is a bad basketball program. No one from the Ivy league gets drafted any more, and the Ivies have more stringent admissions policies for athletes. The Butlers and the Davidsons might be somewhat of a happy medium, but they don't send a lot of players to the NBA either. Where else is there?

Vanderbilt, UVA, those are others. Vandy's bball is good, UVAs could be better. But i agree that there are few parallels. But how much worse would say a degree from George Mason be than a degree from Gtown in the real world- id say not much

[98hoya]

***This is intended as a response to JGalt's post - sorry, I messed up the quote feature***

Absolutely, and Bill Gates never graduated from college and my grandpa didn't go past the 4th grade and could recite entire James Joyce books from memory.

What we're talking about isn't the outliers, it's the reality of transferring from a top 25 school with a nearly perfect graduation rate, to a second rate school with a graduation rate of below 50% when it is apparent that this young man has a slim-to-none chance of making it in basketball.

This is all part of a larger problem that Georgetown (of which I'm a proud alum) and its ilk are taking part in by making millions off of young black kids and then not demanding that those same young black kids serve themselves by maximizing their education.

[98hoya]

Apr 30, 2008 12:26:25 GMT -5 jgalt said:

Apr 30, 2008 10:54:39 GMT -5 Hoya TMF said:

But how much worse would say a degree from George Mason be than a degree from Gtown in the real world- id say not much

Are you serious?

[Boz]

Apr 30, 2008 12:32:44 GMT -5 @98hoya said:

Apr 30, 2008 12:26:25 GMT -5 jgalt said:

Apr 30, 2008 10:54:39 GMT -5 Hoya TMF said:

But how much worse would say a degree from George Mason be than a degree from Gtown in the real world- id say not much

Are you serious?

It depends on what you mean. I think I got an excellent education at Georgetown, and I think it was a better one than I could've gotten at most colleges or universities across the country. In that sense, there is a big difference, at least for me.

But did my Georgetown degrees make that much of a difference in my career, as compared to another school? I'd have to say no, not a huge difference.

Of course, I am a pretty big slacker, so probably shouldn't go by me.

[98hoya]

Boz,

I think it can be empirically proven that you're incorrect about career prospects with a Georgetown degree. I wouldn't know where to look, but I suspect that by the types of measures we value (high paying job, ease in finding good employment, etc.), you'd be better off with a G'town degree than 95% of the colleges in the country.

[stafford72]

Students often select colleges based on a particular major area of interest they are pursuing.
So was the case with Vernon Macklin. To be honest, there was probably no way in hell he would have gotten into Gtown without his basketball credentials, not would he or could he have afforded it or been interested in it otherwise. To belittle him for looking elsewhere at schools for the same reasons is absurd. He is not pursuing his PHD in molecular physics. Many of the large State unliversities that you seem to belittle offer a plethora of choices not available at Gtown. For the most part, the student makes the school, not the other way around. Of course, one can be smug almost anywhere.

[98hoya]

Stafford,

To me, "smug" is cheering your team of mercenaries on to the Final 4 (or, Round of 32 in our case) and then not giving a crap about the kids who are being used to get us there. To suggest that Vernon Macklin will be better off at Clemson or the like is really puzzling to me. The reality is that he is NOT going to play pro basketball and he's going to have to find a big boy job like the rest of us in two years. The idea that he's somehow going to have a better chance of success in getting a degree and then leveraging it after two years at Clemson is just not reasonable.

[Hoya TMF]

Apr 30, 2008 12:21:19 GMT -5 Dhall said:

Apr 30, 2008 12:02:09 GMT -5 @98hoya said:

There are a lot of idiots that have graduated from Georgetown and there are plenty of really bright people at schools like Florida or Clemson who might not have the money to afford Georgetown or have other factors influencing them (like maybe an undergraduate science or engineering program worth attending). I can say this having graduated from Georgetown, so get off the high horse.

i'm not sure you were addressing me, but i'm confused as the high horse reference. i would certainly concede that there are a lot of idiots at georgetown and lots of smart kids at schools that are deemed less prestigious than gu. i wasn't the one that questioned the value of a degree from the university of florida. i think vernon will get a good education at most of the schools he is considering-if he takes school seriously enough.

someone else suggested he wasn't taking academics seriously because he was thinking of going to florida. my point was that there aren't a lot of schools out there with great academic reputations that also have the type of basketball opportunities that vernon would receive at georgetown and florida. as such, you can't assume that because he is considering florida, which does not have the same academic reputation as georgetown, that he doesn't care about his academics. he might get a better education at a school like florida, which i imagine has more resources, academic and otherwise, for athletes and a more diverse range of courses and majors. none of us really know what his motivations were for leaving.

[SFHoya99]

The big difference in a non-NBA career is graduating, period.

It matters much less whether it's from Georgetown or Clemson or George Mason or wherever.

I love Georgetown and yeah, I'm sure on average the degree earns you a bit more/ opens more doors but it's a small, small thing compared to actually how good you are at your job.

Good luck to Vernon, and I hope he does graduate wherever he ends up.

[Dhall]

... but any employer who looked at all 6'9" of Vernon Macklin and saw Georgetown as his college would put 2 and 2 together and really want to explore whether he is at the same level of academic achievement as the students who typically graduate from Georgetown. Also, if his transcript were filled with C- grades (I'm not saying it is), he is no better staying at Georgetown than going to another school and maybe performing better in the classroom too. I hire people in my job and I'd rather take an A student from an average state school than a C student from Harvard for sure.