hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Dec 6, 2015 10:09:39 GMT -5
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SirSaxa
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SirSaxa on Dec 6, 2015 23:54:29 GMT -5
By Fred Hiatt, W. Post December 6 at 6:59 PM To understand how dangerously extreme the Republican Party has become on climate change, compare its stance to that of ExxonMobil.
No one would confuse the oil and gas giant with the Sierra Club. But if you visit Exxon’s website , you will find that the company believes climate change is real, that governments should take action to combat it and that the most sensible action would be a revenue-neutral tax on carbon — in other words, a tax on oil, gas and coal, with the proceeds returned to taxpayers for them to spend as they choose.
With no government action, Exxon experts told us during a visit to The Post last week, average temperatures are likely to rise by a catastrophic (my word, not theirs) 5 degrees Celsius, with rises of 6, 7 or even more quite possible. www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/even-exxonmobil-says-climate-change-is-real-so-why-wont-the-gop/2015/12/06/913e4b12-9aa6-11e5-b499-76cbec161973_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-f%3Ahomepage%2Fstory--------------------- So has Exxon joined the "greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American People?"
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SaxaCD
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by SaxaCD on Dec 7, 2015 0:13:08 GMT -5
By Fred Hiatt, W. Post December 6 at 6:59 PM To understand how dangerously extreme the Republican Party has become on climate change, compare its stance to that of ExxonMobil.
No one would confuse the oil and gas giant with the Sierra Club. But if you visit Exxon’s website , you will find that the company believes climate change is real, that governments should take action to combat it and that the most sensible action would be a revenue-neutral tax on carbon — in other words, a tax on oil, gas and coal, with the proceeds returned to taxpayers for them to spend as they choose.
With no government action, Exxon experts told us during a visit to The Post last week, average temperatures are likely to rise by a catastrophic (my word, not theirs) 5 degrees Celsius, with rises of 6, 7 or even more quite possible. www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/even-exxonmobil-says-climate-change-is-real-so-why-wont-the-gop/2015/12/06/913e4b12-9aa6-11e5-b499-76cbec161973_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-f%3Ahomepage%2Fstory--------------------- So has Exxon joined the "greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American People?" Quite possibly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2015 8:03:33 GMT -5
Just as a point of information.
During the ice age when ice covered the upper third of the continental US, the average global temperature was 6 (six) degrees less than what it was today. A rise of 5 degrees globally WOULD be catastrophic.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Dec 7, 2015 8:31:59 GMT -5
By Fred Hiatt, W. Post December 6 at 6:59 PM To understand how dangerously extreme the Republican Party has become on climate change, compare its stance to that of ExxonMobil.
No one would confuse the oil and gas giant with the Sierra Club. But if you visit Exxon’s website , you will find that the company believes climate change is real, that governments should take action to combat it and that the most sensible action would be a revenue-neutral tax on carbon — in other words, a tax on oil, gas and coal, with the proceeds returned to taxpayers for them to spend as they choose.
With no government action, Exxon experts told us during a visit to The Post last week, average temperatures are likely to rise by a catastrophic (my word, not theirs) 5 degrees Celsius, with rises of 6, 7 or even more quite possible. www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/even-exxonmobil-says-climate-change-is-real-so-why-wont-the-gop/2015/12/06/913e4b12-9aa6-11e5-b499-76cbec161973_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-f%3Ahomepage%2Fstory--------------------- So has Exxon joined the "greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American People?" Putting aside the merits of Exxon's motivation, if you believe a tax collected will ever be returned to the American taxpayer, the Easter Bunny and Santa will take you to lunch...their treat.
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SirSaxa
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SirSaxa on Dec 7, 2015 11:05:14 GMT -5
Putting aside the merits of Exxon's motivation, if you believe a tax collected will ever be returned to the American taxpayer, the Easter Bunny and Santa will take you to lunch...their treat. But of course, that really isn't the point is it Elvado. As everyone knows, the first step toward solving a problem is admitting we have one. Not acknowledging the issue then attempting to create a distraction by criticizing a potential step to deal with it is never going to lead to any kind of solution. If/when Republicans can finally come to acknowledge that this is real issue and that everyone else in the world knows it, then a discussion and debate about the best ways to address it can begin.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Dec 7, 2015 11:17:51 GMT -5
Put me solidly in the camp of those who believe the topic needs discussion and real solutions. That said, dont begin the process with illusory promises.
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TC
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Post by TC on Dec 7, 2015 12:43:46 GMT -5
Putting aside the merits of Exxon's motivation, if you believe a tax collected will ever be returned to the American taxpayer, the Easter Bunny and Santa will take you to lunch...their treat. Bottle deposits.
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Elvado on Dec 7, 2015 12:46:53 GMT -5
That should keep panhandlers very busy... Of course in the Obama economy, there are lots so not a bad idea...
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TC
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Post by TC on Dec 7, 2015 13:04:56 GMT -5
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Dec 7, 2015 13:13:10 GMT -5
Fair enough. I am compelled to point out that bottle bills are not federal. I reiterate my lunch offer for the day Washington returns money to the American Taxpayer.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2015 12:24:20 GMT -5
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blueeagle
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Win or lose, it's the school we choose.
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Post by blueeagle on Dec 10, 2015 18:01:12 GMT -5
I completely agree and trumpet the sentiment that a conversation about a solution can only begin once opponents of climate change admit that there is a problem.
Unfortunately, we have descended into the realm of cognitive dissonance with climate change deniers. Their arguments are filled with red herrings, non sequiturs, ad hominems, etc. rather than empirical and measurable evidence that has been replicated. You know, by the scientific method.
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SaxaCD
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by SaxaCD on Dec 10, 2015 21:48:40 GMT -5
Put me solidly in the camp of those who believe the topic needs discussion and real solutions. That said, dont begin the process with illusory promises. And let's start with premises that are untainted and undoctored. And why do some people always think that governments, most of whom can't run a motor vehicles department, will be the key to anything this large? That's where the "religion" comes in (as signified in the term "denier" instead of "skeptic" -- if you are an apostate or a heretic, then of course you can be a "denier").
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TC
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Post by TC on Dec 10, 2015 23:31:02 GMT -5
And why do some people always think that governments, most of whom can't run a motor vehicles department, will be the key to anything this large? Because government has been successful before (Montreal Protocol, Cap and Trade for Acid Rain, Clean Air Act, etc) and because market based approaches will probably be the most successful at speeding up the transition.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Dec 15, 2015 13:16:29 GMT -5
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Dec 15, 2015 13:22:00 GMT -5
Good to see that yet again we are party to an Agreement that had no enforcement provisions.
This Administration excels at such agreements...
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Dec 15, 2015 14:48:39 GMT -5
Good to see that yet again we are party to an Agreement that had no enforcement provisions. This Administration excels at such agreements... Are you suggesting you would have preferred an agreement on climate change that included enforcement provisions?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Dec 15, 2015 15:40:46 GMT -5
I'm suggesting that empty achievements are coin of this realm...
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TBird41
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"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 15, 2015 15:46:03 GMT -5
Good to see that yet again we are party to an Agreement that had no enforcement provisions. This Administration excels at such agreements... Are you suggesting you would have preferred an agreement on climate change that included enforcement provisions? Did the other agreements that worked and were cited earlier have enforcement provisions? I'm aware of their impact, but only vaguely aware of how they were implemented.
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