hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Feb 12, 2008 12:03:26 GMT -5
I'm not one to immediately jump on coaches for every failure of execution by the players. However, there have been a number of ongoing issues (some going back years) that have never been remedied, and the coaching staff has to take some heat for that.
Before anyone jumps on me, I absolutely love what JTIII has done for the program (I was a student for the last 2 Esh years and first 2 of JTIII, so I witnissed the change firsthand). Still, he is a young coach and in my opinion has some weaknesses that I hope he can address.
1. Breaking the Press
Not much to be said here. For years the team has shown no concept of how to break the press effectively, and never gets easy baskets off of it. Presses are supposed to be high-risk, high-reward; against us, it's just high-reward. Yes, some of the problems here are due to poor passing, but the scheme is obviously a problem as well and it's worrying that after years of struggling JTIII does not seem to have made adjustments.
2. Fastbreaks
I'm not talking about how often we break here - personnel to a large part dictates that. However, the few times we do break the players look clueless in terms of spacing and timing on their passes. Supposedly we spend very little time practicing the break, but you'd think we spent none. This will be more of a problem next year if we don't see improvement, since the team will be quicker and more athletic.
3. Half-time Adjustments
I can't remember if this was a problem last year, but this season the team has consistently struggled out of the break. Against almost every good team we've played, we have gone on a drought at the start of the half. I might have passed it off as a fluke before but now it's become a pattern.
4. Getting it to Roy
In his post-game interview, JTIII said that he was happy with the job the team did of getting the ball inside in the 2nd half. Yet, as we all know, getting away from that is what almost cost us the game. For years now we have shown poor technique on entry passes and a lack of consistent effort to work the ball into the post. Some of this is certainly on the players, but it is the coaches job to work with them on their technique and to get on them if they aren't feeding Roy enough. If JTIII really wanted Roy to get the ball more, it's hard to believe that he wouldn't be by this point.
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Post by jamaicahoya on Feb 12, 2008 13:48:29 GMT -5
I am not sure whether the fast break and half-time adjustment points have been long-term problems(I am almost sure that second-half adjustments were one of our strong points last year.) I do believe, however, that breaking the press and getting the ball to roy have been long-term weakneses that clearly reflect some coaching deficiencies.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Feb 12, 2008 13:58:34 GMT -5
To be fair, NOVA was more than willing to throw 15 fouls at Roy, and they almost did. Didnt 2 guys foul out. They did a good job sealing him off. Sometimes you have to credit what defenses are doing against you. I didnt see a lot of times when we were missing Roy down low. In fact, I was nervous that we were going to force the ball to him in tough spots. Smartly, they held back.
All in all, I agree with the tenor. Teams will and should continue to press with a zone scheme that doesnt allow Roy to catch the ball in the middle of the court. It forces us to use the wings or slow down and throw the ball around in the backcourt. Unless and until we make an adjustment that blows that up or allows us to get into our offense faster, we will be seeing it a lot for the rest of the season.
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lichoya68
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 12, 2008 14:12:23 GMT -5
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 12, 2008 16:43:43 GMT -5
Hoyaboy, I agree, especially with the high reward, no risk nature of the press against GU. So far this season, the staff's plan on how to break the press has been to pass it back diagonally until the players get the ball across the half-court. This move usually takes about 10 seconds off the clock. Once we get it across, the other team has time to set up for the zone defense. We don't try to punish the other team for playing us tough. Basically, it looks like our plan is to weather the storm across the half court and hopefully not turn it over or get trapped and use a TO.
As for getting the ball to Roy, will we look back and discuss how we wasted Roy's presence in our offense by not forcing it in? Hopefully, we can turn it around starting this Saturday.
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Feb 12, 2008 16:58:49 GMT -5
Well thank god Cuse doesn't have the depth to press us Saturday. We'll get a brief 1 game respite. Of course now that I said that, we will turn the ball over 25 times against the 2-3.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Feb 12, 2008 17:10:42 GMT -5
My least favorite coaching moment last night came on GU's next to last possession (JW's free throws being the final possession). Timeout was called with 54 seconds left and the ball in the frontcourt. At that point, in a tie game, I beg coach to please do everything in his power to encourage a relatively quick shot to allow for a true 2-for-1 possession situation. If you get a shot off somewhere between the 42 and 38 second mark, you still have plenty of time to create a good shot and be sure of getting the ball back with some time no matter what your opponent does (outside of an offensive rebound).
Instead, they pass around the perimeter and end up with an Austin Freeman 3 pointer with 30 seconds left, a shot that was clearly available 10 seconds earlier, and gave Villanova the chance to take the last shot in a tie game. That play, more than anything else, drove me crazy last night. Jeremiah and Jonathan and Donato made sure it was not decisive, but man was it stupid.
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hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Feb 12, 2008 17:15:56 GMT -5
JTIII isn't a fan of the two for one, I don't think. Whenever it's a possibility I start yelling to my friends about it, but we never go for it.
This is more of a generic stupid coaching decision (like not fouling up 3), so I left it off my list of JTIII-specific issues.
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Post by Hoya TMF on Feb 12, 2008 17:17:35 GMT -5
if you have the number one defensive team in the country, why would you do that? assuming there's 54 seconds left and nova takes the whole clock, we are talking about potentially two shots with ten seconds left. what kind of strategy is that? if we play smart and get a good shot the firs time around, then we can rely on our defense to win as we did against UConn, WVU and Syracuse. especially this season, if i'm bettingon us, i'm betting on taking the whole clock on offense and putting the game in the hands of the defense where they will hopefully have a two or three point lead after our basket.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 12, 2008 17:17:48 GMT -5
My least favorite coaching moment last night came on GU's next to last possession (JW's free throws being the final possession). Timeout was called with 54 seconds left and the ball in the frontcourt. At that point, in a tie game, I beg coach to please do everything in his power to encourage a relatively quick shot to allow for a true 2-for-1 possession situation. If you get a shot off somewhere between the 42 and 38 second mark, you still have plenty of time to create a good shot and be sure of getting the ball back with some time no matter what your opponent does (outside of an offensive rebound). Instead, they pass around the perimeter and end up with an Austin Freeman 3 pointer with 30 seconds left, a shot that was clearly available 10 seconds earlier, and gave Villanova the chance to take the last shot in a tie game. That play, more than anything else, drove me crazy last night. Jeremiah and Jonathan and Donato made sure it was not decisive, but man was it stupid. This sounds eerily similar to the analysis I heard during the game in section 112... could there be genetics involved or is it just CYO?
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Feb 12, 2008 17:21:37 GMT -5
JTIII isn't a fan of the two for one, I don't think. Whenever it's a possibility I start yelling to my friends about it, but we never go for it. This is more of a generic stupid coaching decision (like not fouling up 3), so I left it off my list of JTIII-specific issues. True enough- many coaches do not favor the 2 for 1, and the Big Monday guys even pointed it out at the end of the first half, where even if you play for the 2 for 1 an idiot like Paul Harris can screw it up for you because the clock does not stop after a made hoop, and where the importance of an individual possession is less clear when there are still 20 minutes to play. But you would think a coach who runs a progressive offense would also think about things like going 2 for 1.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Feb 12, 2008 17:28:00 GMT -5
if you have the number one defensive team in the country, why would you do that? assuming there's 54 seconds left and nova takes the whole clock, we are talking about potentially two shots with ten seconds left. what kind of strategy is that? if we play smart and get a good shot the firs time around, then we can rely on our defense to win as we did against UConn, WVU and Syracuse. especially this season, if i'm bettingon us, i'm betting on taking the whole clock on offense and putting the game in the hands of the defense where they will hopefully have a two or three point lead after our basket. That great defense is going to have its chance no matter what- you will need their help regardless. Unfortunately, that great defense can do nothing to break a tie game on its own, and the offense was really struggling, so trying to give the offense two chances is pretty important. And Dan, I don't know if I blame nature or nurture, but the 2 for 1 is an article of faith at our kitchen table. CYO had no shot clock, so I never saw it put into practice.
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hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Feb 12, 2008 17:31:58 GMT -5
But you would think a coach who runs a progressive offense would also think about things like going 2 for 1. It's safer to assume that all coaches are Luddites. I've given up on getting mad about that kind of stuff - no matter how often I yell about it, baseball managers will still bunt in the first inning and basketball coaches will pass up 2 for 1s.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 12, 2008 18:18:39 GMT -5
Hoyaboy, I agree, especially with the high reward, no risk nature of the press against GU. So far this season, the staff's plan on how to break the press has been to pass it back diagonally until the players get the ball across the half-court. This move usually takes about 10 seconds off the clock. Once we get it across, the other team has time to set up for the zone defense. We don't try to punish the other team for playing us tough. Basically, it looks like our plan is to weather the storm across the half court and hopefully not turn it over or get trapped and use a TO. As for getting the ball to Roy, will we look back and discuss how we wasted Roy's presence in our offense by not forcing it in? Hopefully, we can turn it around starting this Saturday.[/quote Lets give JT3 a little credit. He played high school BB, and I am sure he has seen using your center at half court to break the 1-2-2 press. I think we have to consider that maybe there is a reason he does not use this approach. For that method to work the center has to jump high in the air and catch a high pass from a guard from about 20 feet with a lot of mustard on it. I have seen Roy muff the high lob pass to the front of the rim enough times to realize that that play should not be tried with him. In short the staff may have seen Roy muff that high pass from a guard to center court in practice enough times to know the "risk - reward" factor is not in the Hoyas favor. Now I think Macklin is able to leap high enough and has the hands to handle the pass, but I am not so sure of the decision making after the catch right now.
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Eurostar
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Post by Eurostar on Feb 12, 2008 19:12:50 GMT -5
Lets give JT3 a little credit. He played high school BB, and I am sure he has seen using your center at half court to break the 1-2-2 press. I think we have to consider that maybe there is a reason he does not use this approach. For that method to work the center has to jump high in the air and catch a high pass from a guard from about 20 feet with a lot of mustard on it. I have seen Roy muff the high lob pass to the front of the rim enough times to realize that that play should not be tried with him. In short the staff may have seen Roy muff that high pass from a guard to center court in practice enough times to know the "risk - reward" factor is not in the Hoyas favor. Now I think Macklin is able to leap high enough and has the hands to handle the pass, but I am not so sure of the decision making after the catch right now. I would be inclined to agree with you here, but we had Jeff Green last year - a guy that was 6'9 and athletic and a great leaper and decision maker and JT3 didnt use him in the middle of the press either. Hoyaboy I totally agree on all counts. I thought this year and next year would be interesting as far as how JT3 handles the team and possibly makes adjustments to his "system". We had 2 athletic guards come in this year and were looking at the emergence of a couple more athletic big men in Macklin and Summers. We also have Roy who has been consistently progressing in the "athleticism" department over the course of his time at gtown. Next year we lose arguably 2 of the slowest people on our team in terms of position (Roy and Wallace) and gain a crop of really athletic players. I thought we would run and press a little more this year especially with Roy on the bench. I don't want to get into a whole system argument here, but I feel like we can still stay true to the system in the half court while effectively breaking the press for scores, working on the fast break, and pressing a bit.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Feb 12, 2008 19:30:41 GMT -5
Maybe coaching needs to take some blame for a 20-3 record.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Feb 12, 2008 19:45:07 GMT -5
Hoyaboy... I agree with everyone of your observations.
With regard to breaking the press... we simply don't know what to do with the ball once we do break the press. While the forward diagnal pass cross court worked well, it often left us with a 2 on 1 opportunity that we never took advantage of. Ususally that pass goes to Freeman or Summers and neigher player did much with it. We much prefer pull the ball back and get into our halfcourt offense. Frustrating.
I totally agree with you on the fast break. The only guy who really knows what to do with the ball on a break is Jessie (evidenced by the 3 on 1 he had against USF and last year's no-look alley-oop to Green against ND). The only guy who really knows how to fill the lane is Summers. Other than the Iverson and Page teams who really knew how to run... Hoya teams have historically have had little success with the fastbreak.
I was shocked myself with JT3's statement that he was happy how we got the ball to Roy. I for one was pulling my hair out as River's never once passed the ball into Roy and I don't think we went to Roy nearly enough...especially when Nova's two bigs fouled out. At a time when we should have been going to the post almost every possession...he sat Roy. I just didn't understand that.
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hoyafoeva
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Post by hoyafoeva on Feb 12, 2008 20:24:10 GMT -5
Hoyaboy... I agree with everyone of your observations. With regard to breaking the press... we simply don't know what to do with the ball once we do break the press. While the forward diagnal pass cross court worked well, it often left us with a 2 on 1 opportunity that we never took advantage of. Ususally that pass goes to Freeman or Summers and neigher player did much with it. We much prefer pull the ball back and get into our halfcourt offense. Frustrating. I totally agree with you on the fast break. The only guy who really knows what to do with the ball on a break is Jessie (evidenced by the 3 on 1 he had against USF and last year's no-look alley-oop to Green against ND). The only guy who really knows how to fill the lane is Summers. Other than the Iverson and Page teams who really knew how to run... Hoya teams have historically have had little success with the fastbreak. I was shocked myself with JT3's statement that he was happy how we got the ball to Roy. I for one was pulling my hair out as River's never once passed the ball into Roy and I don't think we went to Roy nearly enough...especially when Nova's two bigs fouled out. At a time when we should have been going to the post almost every possession...he sat Roy. I just didn't understand that. True, so true...all the guards have to do is be aggressive with the ball.
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hoyafoeva
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Post by hoyafoeva on Feb 12, 2008 20:39:18 GMT -5
To be fair, NOVA was more than willing to throw 15 fouls at Roy, and they almost did. Didnt 2 guys foul out. They did a good job sealing him off. Sometimes you have to credit what defenses are doing against you. I didnt see a lot of times when we were missing Roy down low. In fact, I was nervous that we were going to force the ball to him in tough spots. Smartly, they held back. All in all, I agree with the tenor. Teams will and should continue to press with a zone scheme that doesnt allow Roy to catch the ball in the middle of the court. It forces us to use the wings or slow down and throw the ball around in the backcourt. Unless and until we make an adjustment that blows that up or allows us to get into our offense faster, we will be seeing it a lot for the rest of the season. So you are saying Rafferty, Bilas, Elmore, are wrong about the interior passes that are not being made to Roy. I've been saying all last year GIVE ROY THE BALL! Folks were bashing Roy left to right, all day and night, I couldn't believe it...so what game were you looking because obviously you were not watching either, why don't you try studying the games when they are on...how in the heck can you seal off 7'2", please tell me, just throw the ball up like we were doing "some" of the time, what ever happened to tbe bounce pass, please watch the game, I think it comes on again tonight, the only bounce that was made is when DaJuan three and fake lob, left bounce pass to Roy, the rest of the time his teammates looked him over so many times and when they did that that is when the turnovers started happening. Please tell me what game were you watching. You didn't see a lot of times when we were missing Roy down low...that statement is sooooooo false...I don't think you were looking. Even the inbounds play Roy was right there and they didn't give him the ball.
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hoyafoeva
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Post by hoyafoeva on Feb 12, 2008 20:46:58 GMT -5
I am not sure whether the fast break and half-time adjustment points have been long-term problems(I am almost sure that second-half adjustments were one of our strong points last year.) I do believe, however, that breaking the press and getting the ball to roy have been long-term weakneses that clearly reflect some coaching deficiencies. I think there are some issues within the team from a few players wanting the glory. There is just no excuse for this poor play, none at all. This is a "great team" with a lot of talent. I will find the article from last year from Big John when he stated "this is no time for equal opportunity basketball"...go figure...there are problems with "some" personnel on this team that want the individual glory because they are feeding too much into the press not realizing this is a team game, it hasn't sunk in yet "consistently' and therefore; I think this is affecting the way we are suppose to play the game to a certain degree, not all....just my opinion...come on haters, I know you're out there...
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