Jack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,411
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Post by Jack on Apr 24, 2008 8:23:10 GMT -5
Edit Edit: Jack gets all talky now that his team has gone from heartbreaking also rans to Yankees North. The Red Sox, for all their postseason heartbreak prior to 2004, at least had won 4 pennants since the last Cubs trip to the World Series. 1908 is bad enough, but 1945 is doubly ignominious. But you know that, and I don't mean to pile on. My comment, rather, was directed at the "second-winningest franchise in history" talk, which is nothing more than a 100 year commitment to mediocrity and sounds a lot like Dan Duquette's infamous defense of the 2001 Red Sox collapse by pointing out they had spent more days in first place than the Yankees, as if being in first place mattered on any day other than the last day of the season. Good luck this season Cubs. Someone needs to lose to the AL representative, might as well be you.
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Post by dajuan on Apr 24, 2008 10:36:01 GMT -5
My comment, rather, was directed at the "second-winningest franchise in history" talk, which is nothing more than a 100 year commitment to mediocrity and sounds a lot like Dan Duquette's infamous defense of the 2001 Red Sox collapse by pointing out they had spent more days in first place than the Yankees, as if being in first place mattered on any day other than the last day of the season. First of all, I thought everyone would understand that I was being pretty sarcastic with that whole bit about the Cubs having a legacy of winning. Though, I do find it funny that only the Giants have won more games and that the Cubs have now attained the 10,000 win mark. Secondly, I'm tired of this whole AL Superiority complex. 3 of the last 7 World Series were won by the NL. (If you really want to fudge the numbers, 5 of the last 8 franchises to have won a World Series were from the National League.) It's also worth mentioning that it's harder to make it to the World Series from the National League because there are 2 extra teams. Plus, the Red Sox and the Yankees have far and away the highest payrolls in baseball, so I'm not shocked that they've been able to win some championships.
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 24, 2008 10:51:31 GMT -5
My comment, rather, was directed at the "second-winningest franchise in history" talk, which is nothing more than a 100 year commitment to mediocrity and sounds a lot like Dan Duquette's infamous defense of the 2001 Red Sox collapse by pointing out they had spent more days in first place than the Yankees, as if being in first place mattered on any day other than the last day of the season. First of all, I thought everyone would understand that I was being pretty sarcastic with that whole bit about the Cubs having a legacy of winning. Though, I do find it funny that only the Giants have won more games and that the Cubs have now attained the 10,000 win mark. Secondly, I'm tired of this whole AL Superiority complex. 3 of the last 7 World Series were won by the NL. (If you really want to fudge the numbers, 5 of the last 8 franchises to have won a World Series were from the National League.) It's also worth mentioning that it's harder to make it to the World Series from the National League because there are 2 extra teams. Plus, the Red Sox and the Yankees have far and away the highest payrolls in baseball, so I'm not shocked that they've been able to win some championships. Touchy touchy touchy. There's talent in the NL, just nowhere near as much as in the AL. It's not even close. You pretty much need to win 90 games to win a division in the AL. In the NL, there have only been 5 teams that won 90 or more games in the last three years. And then there's the dominance of the AL in interleague games. The AL is better than the NL.
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Post by dajuan on Apr 24, 2008 11:39:13 GMT -5
First of all, I thought everyone would understand that I was being pretty sarcastic with that whole bit about the Cubs having a legacy of winning. Though, I do find it funny that only the Giants have won more games and that the Cubs have now attained the 10,000 win mark. Secondly, I'm tired of this whole AL Superiority complex. 3 of the last 7 World Series were won by the NL. (If you really want to fudge the numbers, 5 of the last 8 franchises to have won a World Series were from the National League.) It's also worth mentioning that it's harder to make it to the World Series from the National League because there are 2 extra teams. Plus, the Red Sox and the Yankees have far and away the highest payrolls in baseball, so I'm not shocked that they've been able to win some championships. Touchy touchy touchy. There's talent in the NL, just nowhere near as much as in the AL. It's not even close. You pretty much need to win 90 games to win a division in the AL. In the NL, there have only been 5 teams that won 90 or more games in the last three years. And then there's the dominance of the AL in interleague games. The AL is better than the NL. Your logic is flawed to say the least. Just because more teams win 90 games doesn't mean that the AL is better. Take college basketball as an example. Are you saying that Conference USA is better than the Big East because Memphis won more games than anyone in the BE? Having teams with more wins does not make a league or conference superior. It just doesn't. It often means that said conference is significantly thinner or weaker at the bottom. With regard to interleague play, yes the American League has gotten the better of the NL in the last few years, but I don't consider a team's performance in these completely random 3 games series an accurate judge of a league's superiority. Interleague play won't tell us which league is better until baseball evens the leagues to 14, 15 or 16 teams each and has constant interleague play like in the NBA where every team plays every other team at least twice. And for the record, since interleague play was introduced, the AL has won a whopping 51% of games played.
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Jack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by Jack on Apr 24, 2008 12:13:14 GMT -5
Re: AL v NL- You cannot seriously argue that the AL has not had the better teams over the past 4-5 years at the very least. The interleague record, the dominating World Series performances by the Sox teams(x3), the All-Star games, and just an honest evaluation of the talent makes it clear. The balance is swinging a bit, with more young stars coming up in the NL and free agency moving some other stars into the senior circuit, but, the Cardinals and Marlins fluky wins notwithstanding, the NL has been AAAA compared to the AL recently. It's all cyclical (the NL was way ahead of the AL in the 60s and 70s, for example), but so long as you see the Bronson Arroyos of the World changing to the NL and becoming All Stars while the Edgar Renterias come to the AL and cannot hack it, you should probably just bow down and submit to your American League overlords.
Also, the "we have more teams" argument, while it may make it more difficult for any individual team to make the World Series, should actually favor the NL in these comparisons, what with theoretically more total talent in the league (for All Star games, relatively meaningless though they are) and from that competition producing a better champion.
Finally, the salary argument is really tired. The Mets, Cubs, and Dodgers all have had payrolls that are much more similar to the Red Sox than the Red Sox payroll is similar to the Yankees, and in fact this year the Red Sox payroll is fourth in MLB. There are clearly some large market advantages, but lets not act like it is impossible to win with a lower payroll or like the AL has all the large markets.
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FormerHoya
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Post by FormerHoya on Apr 24, 2008 12:20:45 GMT -5
What the hell, since when did the Cubs thread become the place for baseball discussion? This is a place for snarky comments about horrible Cubs, not defenses of silly leagues that create stupid rules to allow managers longer nap times and players who can't field to hit.
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Jack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by Jack on Apr 24, 2008 12:30:06 GMT -5
What the hell, since when did the Cubs thread become the place for baseball discussion? This is a place for snarky comments about horrible Cubs, not defenses of silly leagues that create stupid rules to allow managers longer nap times and players who can't field to hit. Since when did the NL make a rule that Alfonso Soriano isn't allowed to hit?
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FormerHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by FormerHoya on Apr 24, 2008 13:06:29 GMT -5
What the hell, since when did the Cubs thread become the place for baseball discussion? This is a place for snarky comments about horrible Cubs, not defenses of silly leagues that create stupid rules to allow managers longer nap times and players who can't field to hit. Since when did the NL make a rule that Alfonso Soriano isn't allowed to hit? It's not a rule, more of a guideline this year.
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Gold Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Gold Hoya on Apr 24, 2008 13:30:33 GMT -5
Wow, our little moaning thread has a lot of activity the last few days.
I can't think of any scenario better than Marquis du Suc starting in Coors Field this afternoon to ruin a nice winning streak.
Also to whomever asked on page 2, I'm going to DC this weekend and will be at the Saturday and Sunday games. I hear there's a kosher food stand - I wonder if it's kosher for passover. (Yes, I know everyone on here but me is Catholic)
At least Marquis can use a Passover diet as an excuse if he pitches poorly.
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FormerHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by FormerHoya on Apr 25, 2008 12:51:55 GMT -5
32 years ago today, the score was Rick Monday 1, Dirty Hippies 0.
God Bless the Cubs, and God bless America!
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Post by dajuan on Apr 25, 2008 15:06:18 GMT -5
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ichirohoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by ichirohoya on Apr 26, 2008 14:56:41 GMT -5
I know last night's game ended poorly for the Cubs but that Reed Johnson catch in left-center may very well be the play of the year. What a grab!
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyarooter on Apr 27, 2008 23:53:56 GMT -5
32 years ago today, the score was Rick Monday 1, Dirty Hippies 0. God Bless the Cubs, and God bless America! This is something on which I think most of us can agree. I'm guessing this may have gotten some play on the Dodger radio coverage today (for those who don't know, Rick does the Dodger games).
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 29, 2008 11:18:22 GMT -5
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FormerHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by FormerHoya on Apr 29, 2008 11:35:53 GMT -5
Normally this sort of thing would worry me, but in this case, I'm certain that those magical characters on the SI cover are some strange curse prevention from the Orient.
Fukodome's magic powers will save us.
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Post by dajuan on Apr 29, 2008 14:26:10 GMT -5
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Post by dajuan on May 1, 2008 16:09:52 GMT -5
God damnit Kerry Wood, stop hitting the first batter of the 9th inning! For Edited's sake!
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FormerHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by FormerHoya on May 1, 2008 17:13:14 GMT -5
Hey Soriano, sit your ass back on the bench if you're still afraid of the fracking wall! If you can't hit (and you can't) you're fracking worthless. Keep doing your hop so you'll pull something else, you jerk.
(while i always reserve the right to change my most hated Cub player, right now it is Soriano, hands down)
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Gold Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Gold Hoya on May 2, 2008 12:55:10 GMT -5
Former, you are right - and Soriano may have finally found a way to overachieve! With Jock gone, I am not sure whether Marquis or Dempster becomes my current least favorite Cub. The real drama of the next two years is whether Felix Pie manages to grab the title for a bit before Soriano holds down the fort from 2011-2014.
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One
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by One on May 4, 2008 17:30:53 GMT -5
Former, only your enormous man-crush on Kerry Wood keeps him from rightly being your least favorite Cub.
On a different note, Marquis sucks, but can he possibly suck worse than Todd Wellemeyer? I think not. Let's win a series tonight.
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