sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Sept 20, 2007 18:49:37 GMT -5
Sure it's different - he got caught in the act. Of course other teams are doing it. But they didn't get caught. I think what bugs me about it is Bellichick's arrogance. And his stupidity -- first, he got caught; second, if his team is that good, why even bother? The Pats can crush the Jets on an even playing field, so why resort to cheating? [That's rhetotical] As for the point about arrogance, I agree. There is no doubt that this proves that Bellichick will stop at nothing to absolutely demolish his opponents. It's just like how the Pats went for it on 4 and 1 on the Bolts 5 yard line with four minutes to go in the fourth quarter of a blowout. That is cold blooded, most teams kick a fieldgoal. And in a normal game I think the Pats would have gone with a fieldgoal. With all the talking the Chargers have been doing since January, and with everything everyone had been saying all week they were making a statement.
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FewFAC
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Post by FewFAC on Sept 21, 2007 10:29:42 GMT -5
Vince Young and Jason Campbell came out today and had a difference of opinion from Donovan. Basically Vince said "If you can't take criticism--maybe the QB position isn't for you". Campbell said he doesn't feel what McNabb says to be true--and believes criticism "comes with the position--get too much credit/blame, just part of the position". Dude, wtf is wrong with you? Are you Donovan McNabb? Do you experience on a daily basis what Donovan McNabb does? If you are not Donovan McNabb, how in the world can you be an expert as to what he does or does not experience? You seem awfully adamant about something about which you clearly know nothing about, other than what you hear on ESPN...
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Sept 21, 2007 11:13:17 GMT -5
Please--I've been on McNabb's case for years--he's a phony who uses his race to hide from criticism. Everything I said years ago is starting to come to the forefront--he's a baby, Owens was right in what he said and the team didn't have McNabb's back because they knew Owens was right, McNabb sides with management, is devoid of criticism within the organization, has a 100 million dollar contract, and thinks nobody can criticize him? It's part of being a QB--not a Black QB--but a QB and once you get paid like he has--you are going to get it--you get it no matter how much you make as a public figure--but especially one that is paid as one of the best players in FB.
He ran his mouth--hasn't backed it up one bit since the Owens fued. He's the one who made all of these proclimations on how the team didn't need Owens--how he they were better off without him--and the public has seen the results--and McNabb is wrong. So instead of manning up--you get his cries of racism. The only thing more pathetic then McNabb's crying out for sympathy in this case-is that clowns like Michael Wilbon support him because he's from Chicago--and a friend and not because there is any truth to it. Peyton Manning ate crap until last year--and he's 10 times the QB that McNabb is.
McNabb has been protected for years by Syracuse loving alums who broadcast--and make excuses for him--he's always been a good--but not great QB. His teams have been built around defense and won with defense. Nothing wrong with that--he's been good and produced enough to have them competitive--but fans want the next step--it's that way everywhere--and any color of the player. He stunk against Tampa Bay, Carolina in NFC Title games, he had teammates mention his lack of conditioning in Super Bowl-had his fued with Owens, and since then--it's been downhill--people who support teams judge with their eyes and by results--if you don't win--they don't want to hear it's because they are too hard on you for being a Black QB--they don't care--only color they care about is the jersey you wear. Are their racist fans? Of course--but this doesn't factor into his performance, or the majority of criticism. He plays in a premiere position and if you accept the praise, you better deal with the criticism. He doesn't-he makes excuses, whines/cries, and is just a female dog.
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Sept 21, 2007 11:32:43 GMT -5
I would have liked to see Sean Taylor destroy McNabb Monday night, a la Lavar Arrington knocking the career out of Troy Aikman. Go 'skins! "On December 10, 2000, Washington Redskins linebacker LaVar Arrington hit Aikman with such force that his head literally bounced off the turf, leaving a dent in his helmet; it resulted in Aikman's 10th concussion and would end his career. The Cowboys finished the season 5-11." - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Aikman#Professional_career
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FewFAC
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Post by FewFAC on Sept 22, 2007 9:37:33 GMT -5
Please--I've been on McNabb's case for years--he's a phony who uses his race to hide from criticism. Everything I said years ago is starting to come to the forefront--he's a baby, Owens was right in what he said and the team didn't have McNabb's back because they knew Owens was right, McNabb sides with management, is devoid of criticism within the organization, has a 100 million dollar contract, and thinks nobody can criticize him? It's part of being a QB--not a Black QB--but a QB and once you get paid like he has--you are going to get it--you get it no matter how much you make as a public figure--but especially one that is paid as one of the best players in FB. He ran his mouth--hasn't backed it up one bit since the Owens fued. He's the one who made all of these proclimations on how the team didn't need Owens--how he they were better off without him--and the public has seen the results--and McNabb is wrong. So instead of manning up--you get his cries of racism. The only thing more pathetic then McNabb's crying out for sympathy in this case-is that clowns like Michael Wilbon support him because he's from Chicago--and a friend and not because there is any truth to it. Peyton Manning ate crap until last year--and he's 10 times the QB that McNabb is. McNabb has been protected for years by Syracuse loving alums who broadcast--and make excuses for him--he's always been a good--but not great QB. His teams have been built around defense and won with defense. Nothing wrong with that--he's been good and produced enough to have them competitive--but fans want the next step--it's that way everywhere--and any color of the player. He stunk against Tampa Bay, Carolina in NFC Title games, he had teammates mention his lack of conditioning in Super Bowl-had his fued with Owens, and since then--it's been downhill--people who support teams judge with their eyes and by results--if you don't win--they don't want to hear it's because they are too hard on you for being a Black QB--they don't care--only color they care about is the jersey you wear. Are their racist fans? Of course--but this doesn't factor into his performance, or the majority of criticism. He plays in a premiere position and if you accept the praise, you better deal with the criticism. He doesn't-he makes excuses, whines/cries, and is just a female dog. First of all don't EVER link me to Wilbon. What a joke. And it's not that I disagree with you, but I think McNabb has produced enough in Philadelphia to deserve a little more benefit of the doubt than what you are giving him, and management echoes that which is why you don't hear public criticism from within the organization, which, btw, is how teams are SUPPOSED to operate to be successful. Like I said before, I think it's just a Philly thing, subconsciously conscious of their second fiddle status to NYC and now being further relegated behind NE. The championship drought throught all of its sports teams doesn't help, and it's not as though a supportive nature is endemic to Philly versus other markets where the fans are just happy to have a team. And the major sports stars take the brunt of it, regardless of whether it is deserved or not. In McNabb's case, I can always buy the prove it on the field line, but I have never bought into the concept that a player was crap until he won a championship, or even that players who have not won a championship cannot be great. For example, McNabb has a career 85.19 QB rating, which is #13 all-time in the NFL. For all the people who have played QB in the NFL over the years, to be 13 all-time and be disrespected the way you are going on, I'd suspect that Donovan has a pretty substantial point. Just for reference, here( link) are some other career QB ratings: Brady 88.36 Marino 86.38 Favre 85.05 Staubach 83.42 Aikman 81.62 Elway 79.86 Simms 78.48 Unitas 78.40 Theismann 77.37 Jaworski 72.78 Bradshaw 70.92 Namath 65.46 Give it a rest already.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Sept 22, 2007 10:18:52 GMT -5
The guys you listed--which one would you consider McNabb better then? I'd say he's better then Jaworski and Theisman, and it's a toss up between he and Simms. Every other guy on that list is a better QB and I don't care about goofy statistics--I go by what I saw and those guys listed on that list are in a different league then McNabb as QB's.
Then again, I always have thought Steve Young is overrated and shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. He had pretty numbers, was the master of the QB rating--and was someone who as a young Cowboy fan I was glad to see in the game--because if he got hurt Joe Montana might come in-anytime you have that feeling--I don't see greatness. The one year he won--he needed Dallas to collapse to win--and they almost choked that game away. Reading Jimmy Johnson's book he mentioned how he was glad to be facing Young because he was loose with football and liked to run and running QB's are guys who try to make things happen--which often creates opportunities to create turnovers. His teams had no problems with Steve Young--the guy was about as overrated as they come. When he'd get hurt--Grbac would come in and the machine kept rolling. They like the Eagles during most of McNabb's career had 5 wins guaranteed due to an inept division and he'd still get his butt kicked in playoffs by his peers--be it Aikman or Favre.
QB rating King Steve Young and the most overrated QB of all time. So that is what I think of your QB rating. A more important stat to guage a QB is if they can get the ball downfield and make defenses defend the field. Accuracy is important--but Brad Johnson is accurate-he also throws 3 yard passes on 3rd and 10 everytime. Can you make throws to every area that is required to make defenses honest or can they force you to do things because you/your passing game is limited? Skins just played press coverage because McNabb isn't accurate as a passer and Eagles have no speed/playmaking at WR. It's on Andy Reid to get better talent at WR and help McNabb--but it's also on McNabb to make that throw to Kevin Curtis in flat that was open--and everyone on the list you provided would've made with ease.
If QB rating/numbers make you feel better-enjoy fantasy land. I'll take just about every guy you listed and laugh as you have McNabb.
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FewFAC
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Post by FewFAC on Sept 22, 2007 10:30:47 GMT -5
Dude, you're totally missing the point. I agree with just about everything you said about McNabb, but the reality is he's a really good quarterback.
Your points regarding Steve Young are justified; remember the West Coast offense of underneath and outlet passes counting on downfield receivers to set up blocks to gain YAC was extremely important in inflating Young's numbers. But lots of quarterbacks have run the West Coast offense, and not many of them are near the top of QB rating, so what does that say? It says Young was a really good quarterback because he went out, executed, and was accurate.
All I'm saying is you may remember all those other quarterbacks as demonstrably "better" than McNabb, but the numbers don't lie: they weren't. Sure, some may have won more Superbowls, some may have had teams that were even worse than McNabb's. But I think you're expecting too much of McNabb is you have such a vitriolic allergy to him as you do. It takes 22 guys on a football field, and not even the great Farverer could have done all that much with what McNabb has had. For crying out loud as good as Marino was he at least had HOF receivers to throw the ball to and was less successful in terms of consistent success than McNabb has been.
I say get McNabb two HOF-type receivers and you'd be as amazed as you're going to be with Brady this year with Randy Moss. Philly fans blaming McNabb for not having a supporting cast is just sooo Philly, just like they did with Barkley, just like they did with Allen. Honestly, I almost hope Philly decides not to resign McNabb, and he goes somewhere like Detroit and wins three straight Superbowls so Philly fans can protest his annoitment as one of the greatest QBs ever and his induction into the HOF.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Sept 22, 2007 18:09:50 GMT -5
The men you listed on that list have 18 Super Bowl Titles--and played in 27 Super Bowls. Even Jaworski made a Super Bowl--like McNabb. You give the men on that list as many cracks at the NFC Title as McNabb had--with 2 being at home--and see how they'd fare---yes football is a team sport--but it also is a sport where the greatest rise to top.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Sept 23, 2007 18:44:56 GMT -5
Great games by Favre and McNabb.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Sept 23, 2007 23:42:14 GMT -5
Los osos de Chicago hicen por malos I like the alternative Telemundo provided to John Madden and Al Michaels, even if you don't understand Spanish your brain should recognize the difference between what they are saying and the retardation inducing garbage that comes from Madden and Michaels
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Sept 24, 2007 0:05:27 GMT -5
McNabb did a wonderful job today--and answered the critics--myself included. He was playing an opponent who can put up points--so it's not as if anyone can claim "it's the Lions....". Excellent game and all praise to him for his play.
Favre was his best this week I've seen him in years--I know some said last week was a flashback-but doing it against Giants is one thing-against Chargers pass rush--that's not easy.
BTW--Norv effect is now reaching AMBER in Whales Vagina.
Will someone please explain to me how Ron Winter who was head referee of Cowboy-Bear game wasn't on take with that end of First Half decision to roll the clock on a change of possession play? Disgraceful and he should be banned from working a game--that and his crew not calling the "mysteriously enforced" horse collar rule--Roy Williams was rightfully called for it--and Michaels said "You don't need to be inside the pads--it's just if you tackle anyone that way--by jersey, etc.." and then Julius Jones and Marion Barber get the same tackle--and it's not called and Al says "well it's not inside the pads".
NFL needs to come out with rules--and explain that they'll enforce them on a play by play basis--so we understand they only apply to one team in a given game.
WTH were the Skins doing in the last drive? Running the ball is fine by me--but wouldn't you want the guy you gave up Champ Bailey for, pay millions to have, and he's not on the field? Then they hurry up on 4th down--who cares if you get play off quickly--it's last play for you either way--you either score or lose possession--so why rush it? Aaron Ross made play of day by submarining the Skin OL and by doing that--he took out Betts as well--but Skins rightfully lost a game they didn't deserve to win or even have a chance to tie--however the offensive play calling all day and the decision to have Portis sit--maybe Gibbs didn't see him because he wasn't in one of his disguises? Weirdbeard, or Dr. I don't Know? Odd to say the least.
Will anyone's eyes recover from the Philly uniforms? If I'm Eagles and put up 56, I'm in them next week too. ;D
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Sept 24, 2007 8:07:33 GMT -5
Great games by Favre and McNabb. Packers got lucky there--they were more worried about Favre tying the TD record than winning the game--how else to explain throwing the ball four times on their second to last possession, including two separate possessions where they had the ball on the 1 inch line. I particularly enjoyed the 4th down play where they had Farve alone in the backfield with 5 receivers when the nose of the ball was practically on the goal line. If Rivers had hit a wide open receiver on 3rd and 3, the Chargers win that game (or if Norv had given the ball to the best RB in the league--that might have worked too).
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Sept 24, 2007 14:24:00 GMT -5
No joke, that was hilariously disingenuous when the headcoach said he "was just going off his playsheet."
Really?
You expect me to believe that going with an empty backfield on the goal line was on your playsheet? If that is the case, that is the worst playsheet I've ever heard of. It was the most obvious "individual over team" moment since Brett Favre took a sack from his buddy Strahan. All in all, Favre has entered the Cal Ripken Jr. portion of his career. Enjoy the upcoming 4-9 stretch run to Favre retirement.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Sept 25, 2007 11:25:04 GMT -5
What's happened to the Saints? Is there anything more surprising this season than the Saints being 0-3?
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Sept 25, 2007 12:20:17 GMT -5
What's happened to the Saints? Is there anything more surprising this season than the Saints being 0-3? One thing nobody in NFL mentioned in offseason--John Morton the Passing Game Coach/WR Coach at USC left the Saints to work with Steve Sarkisian who he worked with in Oakland for a year. Brees/passing game stink this year. Deuce McCallister being injured isn't going to help--Bush can't be a primary RB and only good thing is that they'll be picking in top 10 of Draft for next year. Seeing Sean Payton in NY and Dallas-I wasn't sold he was genius that he was made out to be last year--and he's going to do have to do more then have 1 good season to disprove the years of mediocrity in those previous stints. Saints didn't do anything to address their awful defense in offseason and if they aren't scoring points--which they aren't--they can't win.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Sept 26, 2007 10:16:41 GMT -5
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FewFAC
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Post by FewFAC on Sept 26, 2007 10:25:02 GMT -5
It's tough to defend when your QB gives up 4 TOs a game deep in your own territory.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Sept 26, 2007 12:52:25 GMT -5
RDF wrote:
Reading Jimmy Johnson's book he mentioned how he was glad to be facing Young because he was loose with football and liked to run and running QB's are guys who try to make things happen--
For what it's worth -- and I already know what you think of Colin Cowherd -- but in any case he was talking about this just the other day. The point was that McNabb was catching heat and then tried to defend himself by playing the race card. Somehow it got back to the famous "running qb" issue, and then the race issue again. I forget if it was Donovan himself or one of the analysts, but the point was made that Steve Young was a running quarterback and yet he never got the same types of criticisms that both McNabb and Michael Vick have. Surprisingly, the stats didn't really prove it. In Steve Young's prime, which I think he said was a 5 year period, he averaged 3500 yards a season passing and only a little over 300 rushing. That isn't a running qb in the real sense of the word. On the larger scale, Staubach and Tarkenton were famous for their scrambling ability and it was always treated as a plus. Even Elway had a little of that flair as well, yet it was also viewed positively. All in all, I don't really know what to make of the running angle, but I think you are right when you suggest that the criticism in general is usually warranted, and based on the production on the field.
The exception might be star athletes towards the ends of their careers. Favre for example was absolutely dreadful for the past couple of seasons and yet the "Favre Magic" was still talked about. I must admit however, that he looks a lot more like his old self so far this season.
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Post by sleepyjackson21 on Sept 26, 2007 22:31:02 GMT -5
It might be the Brian Griese show now but the Bear D is decimated. Mike Brown, Dusty Dvorak, Charles Tillman, Nathan Vasher, Tommie Harris and Lance Briggs are all hurt. That's 6 starters with most of them at or near pro bowl status.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Sept 26, 2007 22:48:19 GMT -5
Anyone ever notice how many Oklahoma players in the NFL get injured? Dan Cody has yet to play an NFL game--and he's in his 3rd year, Teddy Lehman, Mark Bradley, Dvoraceck, Harris, Calmus, Alexander, it sure seems to be a lot of kids from one school who get injured often.
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