HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Feb 10, 2005 20:15:00 GMT -5
TNT is reporting zo is on his way back to the heat. i never thought i'd see the day that zo, shaq, and laettner were all on the same team. best of luck to zo and the heat the rest of the season.
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lichoya68
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 10, 2005 20:19:24 GMT -5
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Feb 10, 2005 21:06:16 GMT -5
TNT is reporting zo is on his way back to the heat. i never thought i'd see the day that zo, shaq, and laettner were all on the same team. best of luck to zo and the heat the rest of the season. Zo is my all time fave and I'm happy for him. But he should be ashamed over how he has handled the situation. Not reporting to Toronto when traded helped set a bad example and the NBA has to do something about guys refusing to be moved. Its getting out of hand. Also Zo has been a little to greedy when it comes to the money he is demanding despite not suiting up most of the time these past few years. He learned his lessons on capitalism from JT a little too well. |
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Feb 10, 2005 22:26:27 GMT -5
id be shocked to learn the top 3 picks in the same draft have ever been on the same team during their careers...
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HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Feb 11, 2005 7:02:03 GMT -5
i don't get it. greedy? the nets gave zo that contract. he didn't force them to do anything. i'd love to meet the person that would say 'no thanks, i don't deserve that much money, i'll take less'. miami continued to pay zo because they know he gave his heart and soul for that team and city. as far as i'm concerned, he deserved every cent.
you are calling a person greedy that devotes more of his time and money to charities than anyone else in sports, besides maybe mutombo. i don't think it's fair.
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lichoya68
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 11, 2005 7:18:36 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 11, 2005 14:19:33 GMT -5
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Feb 11, 2005 14:41:34 GMT -5
I know all of Zo's charitable works. But he has been greedy and no good deeds off the court justifies that Miami paid him every dollar on the remaining years of his contract when his kidney went sour. So even though Zo barely played for two years and was nowhere near 100% strength the other year he didn't lose one cent. Now that is not Zo's fault; that's the fault of the NBA contract agreement. As much as I want players to be protective there has to be a better way than guys like Grant Hill and Alonzo getting paid tens of millions of dollars for about ten days of work after they are unfortunate to come down with a terrible illness and injury. But that's just how things are so again I can't blame Alonzo for that.
What I can blame Alonzo for is after all the loyalty the Heat showed him Zo decided he wanted to get traded to the Nets. Why? Because the Nets had gone to two straight NBA Finals and Alonzo felt with Kidd, Jefferson and Martin still on board the Nets would return for a third straight year giving him a chance to play for a championship. So he essentially brushes of Miami despite how they honored his contract without complaint. Riley wanted Zo back with the Heat but Zo thought the Heat were rebuilding (turns out they would make the playoffs that year with Wade) and decided not to return. Do I have anything against Alonzo seeking a championship? No, I wish more of the great Hoyas have left their average teams to seek franchises that had a better shot at winning. But Alonzo took it a step too far by still demanding BIG TIME ALL STAR PLAYER IN HIS PRIME dollars. The Nets were so desperate to win that title, they felt it was so close, they decided to be stupid and pay Alonzo, a guy who hadn't played anywhere close to an entire season in a long time, all the dough he asked for. And what happens? Zo's body fails him and he has to leave the game and get a kidney transplant. The common opinion was that Zo's career was over and yet Zo was not willing to give the Nets a bit of a break. After the risk they took on him you would have thought he would have shown courtesy by not wanting every last dollar that they had signed hi for. Unfortunately Zo did want all of it. He wasn't going to even cut a couple of millions off the top.
So....Zo retires. Gets a kidney and gets healthy again. Feel good ending, right? Nope. Alonzo decided to return to the Nets against the wishes of loved ones. But he’s Editeded. He is understandably mad at the Nets for trading away Kenyon Martin. He knows it hurts the Nets chances of winning a championship. And instead of being mature about it he growls like a baby and bitches at management constantly. Where’s the damn gratitude for the class the Nets showed in terms of honoring his contract when he had to temporarily quit the NBA? Why not deal with the issue behind close doors and show some tact rather than act like a jerk? Then to make things worse he started demanding to be traded and kept doing it from training camp up through the first couple of months in the season. Finally, the Nets let him gave him his wish and let him go. But they traded him to a non-contender, the Toronto Raptors. And suddenly Alonzo doesn’t want to play ball. He pouts and heads back to Miami. Here is a man who was Vice President of the Players Association and understands the importance of the rules and agreements that the union has come to terms with the NBA. One of those rules is that when your rights are traded you are obligated to go to the team you are traded to. But like more and more NBA players who don’t like what teams they are traded to or what teams they are drafted by, Zo made a fuss. The thought was that even after being traded to Toronto a deal was going to happen that would eventually send him to Miami by the All Star Break. So all Zo had to do was go along and act like a professional until that trade occurred. Instead he behaved in a way that many Iverson detractors on this site would expect of AI. Alonzo is still my all time favorite Hoya and I will root for the Heat now that he’s there. He has been a great competitor, hard worker and role model. But how he has handled this situation is beneath him and I won’t be an apologist for that type of behavior.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Feb 11, 2005 15:49:08 GMT -5
MCI, I wish Iverson would follow Zo's lead and get the BLEEP out of Philly. That organization is doomed as long as Ed Snider continues to be in charge and Billy King is a complete moron too. It's more fun to see Allen get to play his game but it'd be a lot nicer if he was playing with a legit team. When he played two summers ago with the Olympic Qualifying team in Puerto Rico, that was some fun basketball to watch and nice to see him with other talented guys. He did a fine job in the Olympics as well with a young, and in some cases mis-cast group of players.
Then he finally gets to play in an uptempo offense, but with only a few players worth having--Korver, Dalembert, Iguodala, and Coriliss Williamson. The others are all CBA level or washed up role players-- McKie and Ollie. When your "big acquisition" via Free Agency is Brian Skinner, that says it all. Especially when Philly already had him before. Then David Aldridge reports King and Sixers are going to trade Robinson to Milwaukee for Keith Van Horn--another player Philly's had 2 times and traded away.
Iverson's career has been wasted in Philadelphia and while I admire him for doing the honorable thing and remaining committed to his organization, it's the not the same group he was drafted by-- once Croce left, the life and vision of the franchise was lost. He needs to bolt and ASAP if he ever plans on being on a contender again. Seeing 35 pt 10+ assist nights wasted with this crew is sickening.
So please follow the path Zo had led and get the heck out of town Allen! Good for Zo---I know what you were getting at MCI, but I'm tired of seeing Hoyas having to carry CBA Talent like Patrick did for years and Zo did for most of his career in Miami. Tim Hardaway was an overrated BUM, so he doesn't count as a "Great player" in my eyes.
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Post by HoyaJG on Feb 11, 2005 15:54:08 GMT -5
I have to agree that Zo is greedy. Between money and refusing to play on a non-contender, he is pretty selfish on this, regardless of past behavior.
Also, where do guys get off say ing they only want to play for a contender? and then they are revered because they want that more than money? Screw that, they are all rich enough even when they "settle" for less money. and I think if you don't make any team a contender, then you don't have a right to demand to play for one.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Feb 11, 2005 16:31:09 GMT -5
Zo is not greedy. Its business. And by the way, Zo wasn't traded from Miami to New Jersey. Zo's contract expired, and he and Miami amicably parted ways. So it isn't Zo's fault he left Miami and went to New Jersey. It was his right to earn a living. The NBA has guarenteed contracts. It wasn't like Zo got a bad kidney on purpose. And, going against advice, he courageously tried to come back and help the Miami and New Jersey teams by playing while he had the ailing kidney. How many players sit on fat contracts and care nothing of it. Too many to name. Zo signed with New Jersey thinking they had every intentions of trying winning a title. When they traded the farm and all of its players, Zo felt like they didn't hold up their end of the deal. So he demanded a trade. Toronto traded Vince Carter, knowing Mourning wasn't going to play for them, and knowing that they would waive him eventually. It wasn't a disservice to them. He helped them by slashing their payroll. Zo is not greedy. I'm quite shocked to hear people call him greedy, when the man was willing to risk his life/health to help two NBA franchises try to win a title.That is not greed, that is courageous.
As far as AI, He is the best player in the NBA. You can talk about all the players you want, nobody is better than AI. What this man does night in and night out, at his size, and with so many injuries is beyond belief. He played out of position at two-guard when he was the ONLY scoring option, and led his team to an NBA finals. Not to mention lead the only team to win one game against the Lakers in the 2001 playoffs. Right now he is having an MVP season. I hope they can get some pieces around him right now because he is in his prime.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Feb 11, 2005 16:49:37 GMT -5
Zo is not greedy. Its business. And by the way, Zo wasn't traded from Miami to New Jersey. Zo's contract expired, and he and Miami amicably parted ways. So it isn't Zo's fault he left Miami and went to New Jersey. That's what I wrote in my second post in this thread. No disagreement in what happened. Just in how Zo went about it. His decision, not the Heat's. If the Heat was some NFL franchise forcing a player to get back in the arena that's one thing. But no one inthe Heat organization pushed Zo to return. Alonzo simply had a strong desire to play. Agreed. Which is why Tony Kornheiser and other Zo bashers in the media tick me off because they don't acknowledge that. That being said Alonzo handled this issue wrong IMO. First of all there is nothing courageous about putting your life at risk for a sporting event. Its foolhardy. Zo has a family and their well being (as his) should come first. Now I don't hold it against Zo for wanting to come back and put his health at risk for a championship. But I do question his sanity...not as much now since he has a new kidney of course but it is still a little too risky. Next of all I never characterize Alonzo as being greedy overall. Just greedy in this situation. And once again that comes from JT's Capitalism 101 training. Just minutes ago Alonzo pointed out on the JT Show that to get out of the Toronto contract he took a six million dollar hit. This led to a discussion between him and JT in which the two of them admitted that JT had argued with Zo in the previous days about NOT giving up the money. But Alonzo thought it was worth it if he could land on a contending team. Bravo to Zo. That shows finally that one Hoya actually did more than give lip service about wanting to win a championship. Zo gave up the dough ffor the possibility of a ring. And that's the first time he has done such a thing because when he left Charlotte for (at the time) a weaker Miami it was about the money. And even when he left Miami for New Jersey for a championship he was still demanding and getting the big bucks. |
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Feb 11, 2005 17:04:28 GMT -5
I hear you points. We agree on some things, and disagree on others. This is a capitalist society. If you don't capitalize on yourself, somebody else will capitalize off you. You SHOULD get all of the money you can. These franchises and networks make BILLIONS off of these players who generate these billions. Millions are tablescraps to these teams and networks. Get all you can. I applaud Zo. I don't think he is wrong.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Feb 11, 2005 17:06:30 GMT -5
MCI, I wish Iverson would follow Zo's lead and get the BLEEP out of Philly. That organization is doomed as long as Ed Snider continues to be in charge and Billy King is a complete moron too. It's more fun to see Allen get to play his game but it'd be a lot nicer if he was playing with a legit team. When he played two summers ago with the Olympic Qualifying team in Puerto Rico, that was some fun basketball to watch and nice to see him with other talented guys. He did a fine job in the Olympics as well with a young, and in some cases mis-cast group of players. No argument, no argument, no argument. You and I have had plenty of public and private conversations about this. I wanted AI off the Sixers for the last three years. I would love if he psuhed the issue but not to the extent Zo had. I don't want AI griping to the media, fans and team management about wanting to leave the Sixers. Alas it seems as if AI does not want to leave Philly. Why I ahve no idea. Its a ruthless city with angry fans. AI has a coach who finally understands how to use him most effectively. Brown was right to make AI play without the ball but most of us were hoping that would be for a limited time ( a season or so). Unfortunately for six or so years LB kept having AI move around set screens in order to take long range jumpers that were not high percentage shots. Moron. Even if AI had made it to every practice (and on time) that scheme wasn't going to work. Iam proud to say I was the lone person asking for the Sixers to be blown up after they lost to the Lakers in the 2001 Finals because I knew that team wasn't good enough to win it all. And if you're playing to win why keep that same core together. It wasn't a case of the pistons being too inexperienced to beat the Celtics or the Bulls being too young to bet the Pistons and both teams needing a few years before they would overthrow thir nemesis. Those Sixers were never going to win it all. I do love the key young players Korver, dalembert and Iguodala. Unfortunately they may be too young to help (Dalembert should be further along but LB and o'Brien haven't played him enough). By the times these guys are truly ready AI may be done. People who read my posts on the Rivals sites know how I feel about King just by looking at my signature. He's arguably the worst GM in the game, another Duke failure at the pro level. He never does anything until after a season is over. So I'm surprised he is even thinking about making a move. How is van Hor doing in Milwaukee? This may be a request by O'Brien because he wants three three point shooters on the court with AI. And, yes, Iverson is having a great season. I will always be a fan of O'Brien just for allowing AI to go back to the point positio and have the ball in his hands. If Brown was still coaching an dhad this squad he would have imediately gotten Eric Snow back to play stall ball with Snow at the point. You know who needs Iverson right now? Your Minnesota Timberwolves. Put AI on Minnesota and the Timberwolves are at least as good as Phoenix. |
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 11, 2005 17:28:32 GMT -5
You know who needs Iverson right now? Your Minnesota Timberwolves. Put AI on Minnesota and the Timberwolves are at least as good as Phoenix. Can this please please please happen. If it weren't for the Hoyas I'd have gone insane by now thinking about the Wolves. One more reason I'm grateful for JT3 |
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Feb 11, 2005 17:33:30 GMT -5
Can this please please please happen. If it weren't for the Hoyas I'd have gone insane by now thinking about the Wolves. One more reason I'm grateful for JT3 A journalist in Minnesota asked for this last year after the Wolves lost in the playoffs. He was ahead of the curve. |
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 11, 2005 20:21:47 GMT -5
PLEASE DONT FOGET ZO GAVE PROBABLY MILLIONS AND RAISED PROBABLY MILLIONS FOR THE POOREST KIDS IN MIAMI DONT FORGET THAT PART FOLKS DIDNOT NEED TO DO THAT BUT DID AND STILL DOES GO HOYAS BEAT WEST VA.. GO ZO MAN FOR OTHERS ..  |
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 11, 2005 20:23:52 GMT -5
PS all of you all worried about greed why dont you send a check to zo's foundation to help the poorest kids in miami that would be a nice gesture and for others ..
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 15, 2005 17:56:39 GMT -5
for the sake of the Clutter Police...  |
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MEGAFAN
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Post by MEGAFAN on Feb 15, 2005 18:05:22 GMT -5
My bad, I should go back and study that Message Board Posting tutorial. Please don't fine me!!!
LET'S GO HOYAS!!! NIX NOTRE DAME!
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