What should government do/be?

[hifigator]

I think most all of us would agree that government is too large ... that is to say that government is involved in too many areas that it shouldn't be. My question to you all is what should government do/be?

I forget which philosopher made this point but it hits home with me right now. His point was that government's mechanism is coersion. That is to say that it makes people do that which they would otherwise not do or prevents them from doing what they would otherwise choose to do. He went on to say that when someone says "we need a law to do this that or the other..." we are really saying that "doing such anc such" is a good idea. And ultimately there are no limits to "good ideas" but the net effect of this is a spiraling downward in freedoms with a spiraling upward of government.

I think we are seeing that right now.

Democracies are typically limited to a life span of about 200 years. Our democratic Republic is about 230 years old, so historical evidence would suggest that we are on our last legs. The logic is very simple. The government puts into law more and more entitlements of various sorts and eventually the Country collapses because it simply cannot support all that it hands out.

With these thoughts in mind, what do you think government should consist of?

Personally, I think that government should do very few things, but that the things it does it should do very well.

National Security, Police and Fire Department are the starting point for me. What else?

[Boz]

Whatever government should or will be I think it's high time for one major change.

From now on, I think it should be officially referred to as "gub'ment."

I feel as strongly about this as I do about the UMCP issue.

[StPetersburgHoya (Inactive)]

Things government should do (abbreviated list):

1) Make every friday hawaiian shirt day.

2) Free ice cream cake/cookie cake on your birthday.

[hifigator]

I find both of those answers to be about as efficient as any other "gub'ment" service.

[nodak89]

I refer you to the seminal treatise on the US Constitution from the 1970's.


tinyurl.com/nzezl

[hifigator]

I am not sure why you posted that, but it did bring back memories from my childhood. Back then cartoons pretty much only came on Saturday mornings. I learned a lot from the old SchoolHouse Rock. Remember "I am a bill, yes I'm only a bill, and I'm sittin' here on Capitol Hill, but now it's ..."

[SoCalHoya]

I agree with the nat'l security, etc. string. But I think the gov't should also be involved in areas that a) are generally too difficult for the people to organize themselves, b) are not likely to be created due to harmful special interests, or c) cannot exist with competing concerns.

Most things fall neatly into a category, others don't. Among other things, under a) we have roads/mass transport, sewage maintenance...under b) environmental concerns, fire dept, securities regulation and under c) nat'l security/police.

You can really re-evaluate even the most basic of premises. Some would claim the EPA is not really necessary. And it isn't. But if you really think about it, neither is gov't-sponsored police.

[SFHoya99]

"Democracies are typically limited to a life span of about 200 years."


Got any backup, there, buddy?

The government should do what its citizens wish. I don't know that the government is too large in scope. It certainly is overly bureaucratic and complex, but overly large in scope? I think we're pretty close to ideal size in scope.

[Deleted]

Government should regulate internet message boards so that Gator fans leave Hoya fans alone.

And if anyone refers to taxation as the government "stealing" their money, government should deprive those people of all services: don't let them drive on public roads, no access to fire or police services, and no access to public education for their children.

[hoyatables]

Government should act big and think even bigger. It should do its best to take care of those matters that don't get handled property by the marketplace--the environment, the poor, the sick, and the weak. It should protect us from those who seek to hurt us, and also from our own failures and mistakes.

It also shouldn't waste time creating problems and debating silly amendments.

[Deleted]

hoyatables said:

Government should act big and think even bigger. It should do its best to take care of those matters that don't get handled property by the marketplace--the environment, the poor, the sick, and the weak. It should protect us from those who seek to hurt us, and also from our own failures and mistakes.

It also shouldn't waste time creating problems and debating silly amendments.

A-freakin'-men. Best description I've read yet.

[nodak89]

hifigator said:

I am not sure why you posted that, but it did bring back memories from my childhood. Back then cartoons pretty much only came on Saturday mornings. I learned a lot from the old SchoolHouse Rock. Remember "I am a bill, yes I'm only a bill, and I'm sittin' here on Capitol Hill, but now it's ..."

hifigator: [shouting in desperation] Isn't there anyone out there who can tell me what Gub'ment is all about?

nodak89: Sure, hifi, I can tell you. Lights, please.


nodak: "And there were in the same country Founding Fathers abiding in the fields, keeping watch over their flocks by night. And lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the lord shone round about them, and they were so afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not, for behold, I bring unto you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you this day is born in the City of Philadelphia, a Constitution, which will be the Law of the Land. And this shall be a sign unto you; you shall find the law written on scrolling parchment and lying on the table. And suddenly there was the Preamble and a multitude of the Revolutionary host saying...

"We the people, in order to form a more perfect union,
Establish justice, insure domestic tranquility,
Provide for the common defense,
Promote the general welfare and
Secure the blessings of liberty
To ourselves and our posterity,
Do ordain and establish this Constitution
for the United States of America."

nodak: That's what Gub'ment is all about, Charlie Brown.

[hifigator]

hoyatables said:

Government should act big and think even bigger. It should do its best to take care of those matters that don't get handled property by the marketplace--the environment, the poor, the sick, and the weak. It should protect us from those who seek to hurt us, and also from our own failures and mistakes.

It also shouldn't waste time creating problems and debating silly amendments.

What a grandiose speech there. Not a whole lot of substance there but tons of feel good nonsense. "It should protect us from those who seek to hurt us" ... that sounds ok. "and from our own failures and mistakes" ... you've got to be off your rocker. Government should protect us from our own mistakes ... that sounds an awful lot like a cross between a police state and socialism. Surely that came out wrong. Is that really what your utopian view of government is?

[hifigator]

nodak89 said:

hifigator said:

I am not sure why you posted that, but it did bring back memories from my childhood. Back then cartoons pretty much only came on Saturday mornings. I learned a lot from the old SchoolHouse Rock. Remember "I am a bill, yes I'm only a bill, and I'm sittin' here on Capitol Hill, but now it's ..."

hifigator: [shouting in desperation] Isn't there anyone out there who can tell me what Gub'ment is all about?

nodak89: Sure, hifi, I can tell you. Lights, please.


nodak: "And there were in the same country Founding Fathers abiding in the fields, keeping watch over their flocks by night. And lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the lord shone round about them, and they were so afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not, for behold, I bring unto you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you this day is born in the City of Philadelphia, a Constitution, which will be the Law of the Land. And this shall be a sign unto you; you shall find the law written on scrolling parchment and lying on the table. And suddenly there was the Preamble and a multitude of the Revolutionary host saying...

"We the people, in order to form a more perfect union,
Establish justice, insure domestic tranquility,
Provide for the common defense,
Promote the general welfare and
Secure the blessings of liberty
To ourselves and our posterity,
Do ordain and establish this Constitution
for the United States of America."

nodak: That's what Gub'ment is all about, Charlie Brown.

OK, fair enough. But all that does is beg a different question. If we simply say that government should uphold the Constitution as it is written ... then the question becomes one of intent and interpretation. That is the underlying problem. Very few people have openly come out in opposition to the Constitution and yet we have drastically different views.

The ACLU is a "good" group because it seeks to ensure that all citizens are afforded the rights as granted by the Constitution.

The NRA is a "bad" group because it seeks to ensure that all citizens are afforded the rights as granted by the Constitution.

[Boz]

hoyatables said:

Government should act big and think even bigger. It should do its best to take care of those matters that don't get handled property by the marketplace--the environment, the poor, the sick, and the weak. It should protect us from those who seek to hurt us, and also from our own failures and mistakes.

It also shouldn't waste time creating problems and debating silly amendments.

Ye gods. Protect us from our own failures and mistakes? Don't waste time debating silly amendments?

Careful, careful young Anakin. To dictatorship this train of thought leads.

[tgo]

hoyatables said:

Government should act big and think even bigger. It should do its best to take care of those matters that don't get handled property by the marketplace--the environment, the poor, the sick, and the weak. It should protect us from those who seek to hurt us, and also from our own failures and mistakes.

exactly! to flesh this out a bit, there should be commissions created for every possible problem or question that could be faced by every person in the world, then each morning each of us could go to a govt website and log in and see how we should live that day and how i should act on any decision awaiting us. hopefully the govt could fully protect me from myself and of course that devilish marketplace that seems to make such a mess of everything it touches.

personal responsibility and freedom are really inconvenient and problematic. when i have to exercise personal repsonibility i am sad and when others exercise freedom in ways i dont like it makes me mad, and those are two things that should be illegal- being sad and mad that is.

[tgo]

cam said:

government should deprive those people of all services: don't let them drive on public roads, no access to fire or police services, and no access to public education for their children.

please show me this great op out button! I accept, i will no longer have access to bridges in alaska, a pool in iowa or a museum shuttle in oregon- all things my federal tax dollars pay for. public education is already unavailble to most children so few would notice the difference. i would be happy for local groups to get together to fund police & fire and the truckers unions would find a way to support our interstate hwy system so sounds good to me.

[Deleted]

tgo said:

cam said:

government should deprive those people of all services: don't let them drive on public roads, no access to fire or police services, and no access to public education for their children.

please show me this great op out button! I accept, i will no longer have access to bridges in alaska, a pool in iowa or a museum shuttle in oregon- all things my federal tax dollars pay for. public education is already unavailble to most children so few would notice the difference. i would be happy for local groups to get together to fund police & fire and the truckers unions would find a way to support our interstate hwy system so sounds good to me.

Public education is unavailable to most children? Really? That's, um.....a PROBLEM....and a bit of an oversight, no?

And you'd have to pay that truckers' union handsomely to use their roads. You don't think the Teamsters (of all people) are going to give you a free ride, do you?

[hifigator]

Cam is all for Big Brother ... only problem is who should actually be the Big Brother?

[TBird41]

hifigator said:

Cam is all for Big Brother ... only problem is who should actually be the Big Brother?

JTIII. ;D