Patrick Kennedy DUI?

[kchoya]

Like father, like son?

At least he didn't drive off a bridge with someone in his car. ;D

If true, I think this would be more serious than the Eddie Sutton consertnation over on the other board.

www.drudgereport.com/flash3.htm

[jerseyhoya34]

I wonder what the fascination is with hating Kennedys among some conservatives in this country. I don't care for their private lives and don't excuse them for lawbreaking to the extent it may/may not have occurred, but the degree that some conservatives take issue with members of their family is disturbing and intolerant, considering what tragedies the Kennedy family has gone through in the last 40+ years.

Maybe it allows them to feel better about ignoring and not bashing some of the shortcomings of current and former members in their own party (among them, Duke Cunningham).

[kchoya]

I don't know about others, but I would post the link about Barney Frank, Evan Bayh or Daniel Akaka . The only difference is that there's a past incident in the family to reference.

I'm curious, how is the interest in the Kennedy family being intolerant? Does the whole family get a free pass for everything because two brothers were assisinated? Do we have to tolerate the drunk driving and the loss of Mary Jo Kopechne? Does the Reagan family get a pass too because Reagan was shot, or does it not count because he survived?

I have no problem examining politicians on both sides of the aisle. Look at the sheer audacity of Cuningham in the amount he took and all everything he bought with those funds.

Back to the present, I'm not sure whether I should admire Kennedy's invocation of Article 1, Sec. 6 or be appalled. Though I thought that it does not apply to criminal arrests.

[jerseyhoya34]

I am not asking anyone to ignore the alleged or proven criminal acts of members of the Kennedy family. I am just saying that some conservatives take their level of hatred of the Kennedys to a disturbing level, where they seem to want to damn Ted Kennedy and his extended family and insinuate regularly that he is somehow anti-American. I will add that Republican leadership, including Bush, use Kennedy as a buzzword to inflame the Republican base, so they are partly to blame.

Let's be serious about "interest in the Kennedy family." Whether you hate him or not, a sizeable group of Republicans does and wishes nothing but ill upon him. This group is not interested in the Kennedy family. They are interested in cheap political gain and power.

No, we do not have to tolerate drunk driving and the deaths it causes, but, at the same time, we can show some measure of tolerance to those who have suffered through what members of the Kennedy family have. Similarly, courts show some measure of leniency toward some criminals with mental illness. Patrick Kennedy, for example, has a history of mental illness. Not saying that these can/would be relevant legally because I don't have experience in those regards.

In other words, I disagree with the idea that one has to choose the path of total condemnation or the path of completely absolving the Kennedys. None of this, like many things in this world, lends itself ot a simple yes/no response.

That said, I think we should wait for the investigation before talking much more about Patrick Kennedy.

If you don't mind PM'ing the links on Bayh and Akaka, I'd be interested to read them. I suspect one could find many links on both sides of the aisle, given the level of corruption in Washington.

[EasyEd]

I'm amused that someone would say conservatives hate the Kennedys while the same person is likely to hate Bush so much more. I don't like Ted Kennedy because his liberal views are the direct opposite of mine but I don't hate him. As for Patrick, I hope that, if he has an addition problem, he will recognize it and get help. He has already had an admitted addiction in the past. What is known about the Patrick incident is that he got preferential treatment by the police though this is probably common.

[DanMcQ]

Some NE area links on the incident:

Boston Globe

Boston Herald


Providence Journal


Not sure why driving a car after taking prescription meds known to cause drowsiness/disorientation is any smarter/more excusable than driving after drinking.

Jersey - I'm not an over-the-top Kennedy hater but many of the 'tragedies' the family has endured are the result of overindulgence in things like alcohol. I don't believe anyone should get a free pass for actions like that regardless of a family's history.

[H2Oya 05]

Maybe this problem could be solved by having a driving curfew on the Kennedys. In my home state, people under 18 couldn't drive past midnight, maybe the same rule should apply to Kennedys? It might be a good PR move on their part.

[jerseyhoya34]

I'm not saying that Kennedy should get a free pass and never said so. Some of the tragedies, Chappaquiddick among them, involved alcohol, but the RFK and JFK assassinations obviously did not. Again, there is a choice between total moral condemnation and total absolution, and the law usually presents one.

And no, I do not hate Bush. I just find his administration to be one of the worst in recent history and disagree vehemently with his positions on the issues. "Hate" is a strong word, and I like to think I don't hate anyone.

I mean, reading through the RNC website, you would think Kennedy was in Al Qaeda or something. Here we are 37 years after Chappaquiddick, and it is still a common topic of discussion on a message board of educated people, let alone places where the true believers frequent. That says something and reflects poorly on Americans IMO. If you look at the websites of so-called news outlets, you see more attention paid to the Patrick Kennedy story than something like Darfur. Incidentally, the Fox News folks have identified the story with a "Drug Distortion?" headline.

[kchoya]

I don't have any links for Bayh or Akaka - I was just saying that if it was the same story but you replaced Patrick Kennedy with Evan Bayh, I would have posted the same thing. If it was Tom Coburn - probably not. I'm sure a democrat would take care of posting it.

And I still don't see how criticism of the Kennedy family is being intolerant.

[jerseyhoya34]

We can wordsmith all we want. Not all "interest" in the Kennedy family is intolerant. Similarly, not all "criticism" is intolerant, as I have said frequently in this thread.

If you want to see evidence of what I am getting at, there are a few examples in here: www.freerepublic.com/focus/search?m=all;o=time;s=Kennedy

[EasyEd]

Jersey, if you don't hate anyone, what gives you the right to accuse conservatives of hating the Kennedys? Look at you first post.

[jerseyhoya34]

I don't quite get the comparison. Judges and juries are frequently asked to pass judgment on whether some acts were hate-inspired, but presumably these judges don't hate anyone or a group of people.

Anyway, interesting that many have said or implied that the anti-Kennedy rhetoric is exclusively political. If that were the case, there wouldn't be this kind of fervor over Patrick Kennedy's accident. I'm not saying that all conservatives partake in this, but there's a certain group of them that do.

[Elvado]

Another drunken Kennedy. There's a shocker. God has funny sense of humor as booze seems to haunt all of the descendants of the great rum-runner/Nazi sympathizer Old Joe.

[Coast2CoastHoya]

Nice point h2oya, which of course brings up the issue of judging maturity in the u.s. and several states.

Sometimes it seems like the country is leaning toward - or at least arguing about - judging people by their actions and not simply their age as the measure of "adulthood" (See Missouri v. Simmons (O'Connor, J., dissenting); California's proposed tennage voting experient - www.csmonitor.com/2004/0312/p01s03-uspo.html; etc.).

Other times, it seems like we're as entrenched as ever in the idea that a certain age equals a certain amount of capacity to be considered an adult (See Kansas marriage legislation story, at us.cnn.com/2006/US/05/05/kansas.marriage.ap/index.html).

I dunno ... I say give 'em some weed. Everybody knows people drive better on weeeed.

wow, i should really be studying for my Crim Pro final!

[jerseyhoya34]

CNN is reporting that Kennedy will seek treatment at the Mayo Clinic. Press conference now. Hopefully all will wish him a successful rehab.

[Boz]

Vote Quimby!

Eruh, good luck, Freddy...I mean, Patrick.

[Elvado]

So nice to know that he was racing off to a key vote while whacked out on painkillers, sleeping pills, etc. When will greater New England finally say enough when it comes to these slobs?

[kchoya]

jerseyhoya34 said:

We can wordsmith all we want. Not all "interest" in the Kennedy family is intolerant. Similarly, not all "criticism" is intolerant, as I have said frequently in this thread.

If you want to see evidence of what I am getting at, there are a few examples in here: www.freerepublic.com/focus/search?m=all;o=time;s=Kennedy

Who is wordsmithing? You said "degree that some conservatives take issue with members of their family is disturbing and intolerant."

(I hate doing this, but I don't know what else to do) Intolerant is defined as "Not tolerant, especially: 1. Unwilling to tolerate differences in opinions, practices, or beliefs, especially religious beliefs."

So how is one, by criticizing the Kennedys or pointing out their foibles, being intolerant? I guess I don't tolerate their getting off with barely a slap on the wrist for drowning a young secretary or driving in to the capitol building.

ADDED: And if he does have a substance abuse problem, I hope gets help. Just like with Rush Limbaugh, Eddie Sutton and many of my past clients. At the same time, if he crashes his car on capitol grounds and was DUI, then he should be punished similar to anyone else.

[StPetersburgHoya (Inactive)]

There is a rumor that Kennedy made the claim that he was going to go vote because there is an explicit protection from prosecution for actions committed (outside of treason and high crimes committed on the way to vote) in the course of a representative going to vote under Article I of the constitution. Nothing in the constitution precludes him from waiving that right, however, which would be the appropriate thing to do if the investigation should classify this as a DUI.

On a less classy note: thank God he made it across all the bridges on his way into that barrier.

[kchoya]

stpetersburghoya said:

There is a rumor that Kennedy made the claim that he was going to go vote because there is an explicit protection from prosecution for actions committed (outside of treason and high crimes committed on the way to vote) in the course of a representative going to vote under Article I of the constitution. Nothing in the constitution precludes him from waiving that right, however, which would be the appropriate thing to do if the investigation should classify this as a DUI.

On a less classy note: thank God he made it across all the bridges on his way into that barrier.

See my message above where I noted "Back to the present, I'm not sure whether I should admire Kennedy's invocation of Article 1, Sec. 6 or be appalled. Though I thought that it does not apply to criminal arrests."

However, I would assume, implicit in that clause, is the requirement that the House actually be voting, or at least that they have not adjourned for the night.