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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2005 10:04:28 GMT -5
Some of those big budget films HAVE to win because the industry needs to perpetuate itself... give the public the idea that they should see these big budget films not only because they are grand in scope, but "artistic" as well. I agree with the Goodfellas as biggest ever (but bigger than Best Picture was Costner over Marty for Best Director), but I put Titanic over LAC at #3. What's #2? In my book, 2001 and "Gladiator" over "Traffic." Traffic was a much better story, much better acted, so much slicker production... but spectacle always beats substance unfortunately. Another upset that year: Soderbergh winning best director over... Soderbergh. I also didn't like Crowe over Javier Barden (most underrated actor in MANY years) that year. Other upsets that really Edited me off are American Beauty over The Insider (everyone loves Beauty but for my money Insider was much better) and that same year Mendes winning over Mann for the same films, Ordinary People over Raging Bull, Kramer v. Kramer over Apocolpyse Now, and Chariots of Fire over Raiders of the Lost Ark! Other upsets of slightly lesser magnitude - Chicago over The Pianist (again, spectacle wins out over a better FILM), 2002 just sucked (Beautiful Mind over MOulin Rouge, first Lord of the Rings, Gosford Park and something else I can't remember), Nicholson winning on sentiment for As Good As It Gets over Duvall who deserved it for Apostle, English Patient over Fargo (Eliane Benes had it right about that crap fest... "Sex in a tub? THAT doesn't work!"), Cage in Leaving Las Vegas over Penn in Dead Man (Penn's BEST role, period), Gump over Pulp Fiction (stupid industry helpin' out their own) and that same year Hanks over Freeman in Shawshank, Miss Daisy over Field of Dreams OR Born on the 4th of July, Rain Man over Mississippi Burning... the list goes on. We can probably all agree the Academy has to help its own...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2005 10:16:00 GMT -5
Baldwin was also the best thing in Aviator and is hands down the best Saturday Night Live host of all time- constantly delivering better comedic timing and discipline than the cast members. Baldwin's best skit was "L.A. Breast and Edited," and also... "Those aren't bed bugs, Canteen Boy!" Steve Martin is awesome too. But his best appearance, in my opinion, was a cameo during Tom Hanks' 5th hosting show when they had the "Five Timers Club" skit (featuring a YOUNG Conan O'Brien as Sean the Doorman): Tom Hanks: Thank you, it's a real thrill. Sean the Doorman: Mr. Hanks, would you like your club robe now? Tom Hanks: Boy, would I! Thank you.. Sean the Doorman: Sean. Tom Hanks: .."Sean." [ walks in ] Paul Simon: Tom! Congratulations! Welcome aboard! Tom Hanks: Thanks, Mr. Simon. Paul Simon: Please, call me Paul. Tom Hanks: Okay! "Paul." Paul Simon: You know, we've had our eye on you ever since your third show. We knew you'd made five. Tom Hanks: Wow, that's flattering. Paul Simon: Yes. There was some concern after "Joe Vs. The Volcano", but you made it, and good for you! Tom Hanks: Thanks. Paul Simon: Step into the reading room. I think you'll like it. Steve, look who's joined us. Steve Martin: Tom, Tom old bean! Let's have a look at you. That robe fits you smashingly. Tom Hanks: Thanks, Mr. Martin. Steve Martin: Please, call me Mr. Steve Martin.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Jun 14, 2005 10:16:47 GMT -5
I guess the only thing we don't agree on is Elizabeth vs Thin Red Line- just realized they were the same year. I wanted to like Thin Red Line but found I had to endure it more than enjoy it. Elizabeth on the other hand was a serious film that was immensley entertaining at the same time. When you see a GREAT film, I find that when you see the first closing credits, you get a tinge of regret instantly. "Damn! Its over already?" I got that feeling with Elizabeth more than any other film I can remember seeing in a theatre- that small theatre on Thomas Jefferson in Gtown with my then brand new gf and now wife. Conversely, I was pretty eager for Red Line to end. But a lot of that can depend on when/where you see the film. I'll never enjoy a film in the late evening. For me the most re-watchable films of all time are Amadeus and The Hunt for Red October, the latter certainly a sentimental favorite that I don't consider a great film as much as one of my favorite stories well-told. As much as I don't care for his politics, Alec Baldwin is a great actor- much better than Harrison Ford in the Jack Ryan role. Baldwin was also the best thing in Aviator and is hands down the best Saturday Night Live host of all time- constantly delivering better comedic timing and discipline than the cast members. Amen on Baldwin on SNL. The Best of Baldwin was on TV a couple weeks ago. Laugh out loud funny. Underappreciated host. But always spot on. As for Thin Red Line...I was more outraged that Best Director and Best Cinamatography went to Private Ryan...best film would have been shooting high. But the beautiful imagery juxtaposed with war...flashbacks...wind, incredibly shot. Not to mention I thought the direction and unconventional structure earned him a huge nod at least in a head to head with SPR.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Jun 14, 2005 10:17:43 GMT -5
The Oscars mess up a lot. That can't be disputed. I don't really buy into the conspiratorial theories about the Oscar picks- that Big Business is making the picks, something there is no evidence of. Its just that there are a lot of voters in the academy, some 5000 or more, and many are old. So fresh and often at the same time violent or racy or quirky flicks suffer with the older crowd. But I don't think its a deliberate manuver to support some segment of the industry over another when they make bad picks, its just overly democratic in that way. Its a little too much of a people's choice awards- one of the most pointless ideas in awards show ceremonies if you ask me, but its quite hard to substantiate that the crappy picks are business-driven. There are just a lot of schmaltzy film lovers out there, even in the Academy.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2005 10:25:12 GMT -5
Big Business isn't making the pics, what I'm saying is that the Academy has to perpetuate the industry and that's why certain movies are given the nod over others.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Jun 14, 2005 10:25:26 GMT -5
The Schweaty Balls on NPR radio skit just about puts me on the floor. Wasn't there a skit where he played a soap opera actor who couldn't pronounce his lines?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2005 10:26:22 GMT -5
Sure did... not to mention his dead on Hasselhoff impersonation.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Jun 14, 2005 10:26:59 GMT -5
Big Business isn't making the pics, what I'm saying is that the Academy has to perpetuate the industry and that's why certain movies are given the nod over others. But that is assuming there is a single entity driving the picks on some years. I just don't see any way that is possible. I just chalk it up to bad/simple tastes winning out because the voting pool is probably too large to make the right choice very often.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Jun 14, 2005 10:28:40 GMT -5
what channel was the Baldwin best of on? I have never seen a best of for hosts...do they have them?
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Jun 14, 2005 10:30:06 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2005 10:40:24 GMT -5
They put 1975 because that's the year the show started. Go figure. They do the same for show listings on IMDb. When they catalog shows its by when the show started, not aired. Pretty confusing, but serves a purpose: shows that have the same name aren't confused with each other. The 1975 isn't meant to apply to the production of the specific show but is attached to the series in general.
But rest assured: buy that, and you're getting the one on NBC from a couple weeks ago. It is the BEST of the "Best Of" series, ahead of Sandler, Farley, Rock, and Ferrell.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Jun 14, 2005 10:42:25 GMT -5
Both Ferrel "Best Ofs" are disappointing, just bad selections. I really don't care for Sandler. My favorite cast member of all time is Phil Hartman. I can't seem to get that Baldwin thing on DVD though. I don't own a VCR anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2005 10:47:31 GMT -5
It just aired so it will be some time before DVD comes out. And I agree on the two Ferrell's... shoulda been condensed into one with different selections (more Jeopardy, less the easy laughers).
And always more Robert GOUUUUULLLLLLLEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTT!!!!
Best cast member ever will always be Bill Murray. Best comedic actor of all time. What range!
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Jun 14, 2005 11:17:40 GMT -5
It just aired so it will be some time before DVD comes out. And I agree on the two Ferrell's... shoulda been condensed into one with different selections (more Jeopardy, less the easy laughers). And always more Robert GOUUUUULLLLLLLEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTT!!!! Best cast member ever will always be Bill Murray. Best comedic actor of all time. What range! Bill Murray is I think the best comedic actor the series produced, but I don't think his body on SNL makes him the best cast member. Hartman gets that for me. Murray is also the best actor period to come from the cast. I would say Eddie Murphy was the best comedian to come from the show, but his body of work on the show is thin too just from his short stint. Hartman has a very long and distinguished body on there in less than showy roles. The weird thing about Ferrel is he isn't really a comedian. He can act Ok, but not terribly well and the stuff he does isn't funny if you explain it to someone. THe dude is just FUNNY.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Jun 14, 2005 11:22:55 GMT -5
That late 80s cast was the best overall. People like Kevin Nealon and Dana Carvey and Nora Dunn were never good in anything outside of SNL (well Carvey has some stuff) and were outstanding cast members. Dennis Miller was great on the news. I'll take those years for the golden age over the begining anytime. The show is an abomination since Ferrell left.
Anyone see Carvey doing George Michael''s Sports Machine show but as George Will guest hosting? Oh my....
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Jun 14, 2005 12:54:45 GMT -5
Now you are really pushing it. Scent of a Woman was horrible. Al Pacino was average in that movie. Don't even bring up Jamie Foxx. We are talking about real actors h ere, not sketch comedy peformers. The Oscars are political. There is no way in the world Al Pacino should have not have gotten an Oscar for Godfather's I and II. Without Pacino as Michael Corleone, that movie is nothing. Pacino was born to play that part. But to say Pacino deserved the award for Scent of a Woman over Denzel for Malcom X, is insane. It was masterful, as well as his role in Hurricane. In Training day he did a great job, but Crowe should have won for A Beautiful Mind. But again, it was political. I didn't say Denzel wasn't great. And I think it's really revisionist to say Pacino wasn't great in Scent of a Woman. Was the ending cheesy? Hell yes, but the film is basically a one man show...with doe-eyed Chris O'Donnell providing the faintist foil to Pacino's performance. I wasn't saying Denzel's Malcolm X wasn't great...I was just saying it was silly to say "robbed." Robbed implied that there was no contest. I think that's a ridiculous statement. In my opion there have been many travesties in Oscar voting: Two big ones come to mind: 1998 say The Thin Red Line get shut out...SHUT OUT...and to add insult to injury the tired, overworked, cliche ridden "Saving Private Ryan" or "World War II for Dummies" garnered Best Director. While the tepid Shakespeare in Love, while enjoyable, walked away with a seemingly disproportionate amount of gold. In 2001, The Royal Tennenbaums, perhaps one of the top five films of my lifetime gets completely shut out of the Oscars. Not even nominations for Picture, Director, etc. Gene Hackman didn't even get nominated for his incredible supporting role. Nothing. Nada. Not even a nomination. Instead people went gaga over a humdrum Ron Howard film, Training Day, Lord of the Geeks and a horribly unforgettable sex scene in Monster's Ball. Denzel was Robbed. There is no if, and's, buts about it. Watch Malcom X and Scent of a Woman again. There is no contest in acting in those 2 movies. Scent of Woman was Al Pacino's horrible attempt at playing a blind man. (He couldn't even do that right). I don't know what is worst Pacino playing a blind man in Scent of a Woman or Pacino's fake accent and horrible role in Carlito's Way. If we are talking Pacino in The Godfather's 1 or 2 or Serpico versus Denzel in Malcom X, then I could see your point. But Scent of a Woman? No way.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Jun 14, 2005 13:56:23 GMT -5
Dude, keep up...we're about twenty mental leaps of mental association away from Denzel. Saturday Night Live people....that's what we're talking about. Keep on topic!
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Jun 14, 2005 15:05:42 GMT -5
Dude, keep up...we're about twenty mental leaps of mental association away from Denzel. Saturday Night Live people....that's what we're talking about. Keep on topic! I hate to be anal, but the topic of this thread is Cinderella Man. Not SNL.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Jun 14, 2005 15:32:27 GMT -5
Then why the hell are you talking about Denzel...now where were we....ah yes...SNL.
I swear we're never going to get through this agenda if we keep getting caught up in the details folks. Seriously, we still have to hit Growing Pains, The Simpsons, Clockwork Orange and Reservoir Dogs...and all that has to happen before lunch tomorrow!
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jun 14, 2005 16:43:13 GMT -5
1998 say The Thin Red Line get shut out...SHUT OUT...and to add insult to injury the tired, overworked, cliche ridden "Saving Private Ryan" or "World War II for Dummies" garnered Best Director. While the tepid Shakespeare in Love, while enjoyable, walked away with a seemingly disproportionate amount of gold. Hey, I'm the other guy who loved Thin Red Line and thought Saving Private Damon was crap! Not to meey ya, Cambridge! I agree with you on Tennebaums, but there's a lot of us. However, as much as I like it, I still prefer Rushmore.
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