I have one word for

[thebin2temp]

people who have trouble with evolution- either the concept or the word. Idiots.

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4107285/

[showcase]

Seriously, if anything is wrong with public education, it's crap like this. Talk about rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic...

I think the real irony of the move is that it's being condemned by the very people it was meant to appease:

Social conservatives who prefer religious creation to be taught instead of evolution criticized the proposal as well.

"If you're teaching the concept without the word, what's the point?" said Rep. Bobby Franklin, a Republican. "It's stupid. It's like teaching gravity without using the word gravity."

[thebin2temp]

I disagree strongly. If there is only ONE THING that is wrong with education- this isn't it since it effects what, 10% of American schools? 15%? If there is ONE THING that is wrong with education, it is that instilling self-esteem has recieved FAR TOO MUCH priority, and actual learning as taking a beating in the process. Americans in general, but particularly American children, have too much self-esteem and don't do enough actually earning it.

I would also say the entrenched power of teachers' unions is also far more of a problem than these creationist idiots who pop only in certain regions. The NYC public schools are among the very worst on Earth- poor nations included. There is no creationism problem in any of the boroughs I assure you. The union of these failed teachers has a 200 odd page contract- almost every page detailing things that the teachers refuse to do. None of it helpful for the kids being cheated.

[showcase]

I think my euphemism ("if anything is wrong") is either being taken too literally or was misused, and certainly wasn't what I intended.

On a more serious note, I think the teacher unions are too strong. I appreciate that teaching is a crappy job with fairly low pay, but on the other hand, just because you've been in it a while doesn't mean you should get to stay long after any love you had for the profession dies.

I'm pretty indifferent on social promotions, since I think it's a symptom rather than a root cause. If anything, a kid's got to want to learn, and that desire is instilled by the parents. By the time a kid starts getting held back, it's probably too late.

[thebin2temp]

OK. when you said "if anything is wrong" I took that to mean you felt it was the number one problem with American education. There are loads of them- and that one annoys me to no end- and would infuriate me if I lived in a creationist school zone- but perhaps we agree it isn't the chief problem.

[Coast2CoastHoya]

Anyone here actually worked in a NYC public school? Most -- actually all -- of the teacher I know working in those schools are AmeriCoprs volunteers. Their verdict is the same -- most tenured teachers in NYC have no love for what they do. Is that their fault? What would you do if all the parents of your "clients" were beating down your door everyday telling you what a terrible job you were doing, while in the meantime all you want to say to them is that THEY"RE doing such a terrible job at parenting, the teachers like you end up doing it for them, which takes away from the already miniscule resources available for you? What would become of Wall Street if brokers and other money-types were making $25,000 a year to work 60 hour weeks (which teachers do, I assure you)? How long would they stick around?

I think the root cause of the lack of good public education is terrible pay. If you paid public school teachers $150k a year, I guarantee people would be lining up by the thousands to do that job, come hell or high water. And you know what? Their students would be like, "Dang, Mrs. Broomfield makes 150 g's a year, maybe I should pay attention so I can grow up and be a teacher too!" But instead we have little Johnnie or Jeannie saying "I can make bank and be on TV and in movies if I act like Eminem and Something Corporate and drop out of school and focus on my music." You know what happens then? Not a lot of focus in school. Anyone else think that the seeinly exponential rise in ADD and ADHD cases in schools (public and private) around the country might have something to do with the fact that the students themselves (not to mention the media, and the parents) have lost faith in the school system, and instead of trying to make it work for themselves and others, have simply given up?