HoyaTalk - NCAA 2008 Regional Finals Discussion

harlemhoya
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Re: NCAA Regional Finals Discussion
« Reply #20 on Mar 29, 2008, 11:55pm »

Jay Bilas said nobody(including Jordan) will out compete Tyler Hansbrough.

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sleepy
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Re: NCAA Regional Finals Discussion
« Reply #21 on Mar 29, 2008, 11:58pm »

What I belive I heard was one announcer say " Now do you think Jordan was any more comptetive/hardworking/intense (forgot the exact word) than him(meaning Hansborough)" Then he went off on ANOTHER tangent of how he has NEVER seen him take a play off and blah blah blah. I was only half listening so he may have been talking about another Jordan, but I thought it was interesting to say the least.

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Re: NCAA Regional Finals Discussion
« Reply #22 on Mar 29, 2008, 11:59pm »

What sleepy heard is correct. Bilas said basically that, something like, "I had the great opportunity to play against Michael Jordan in college, and Hansbrough out-competes him. Nobody out-competes Tyler Hansbrough."

EDIT: you beat me to it, harlemhoya.

« Last Edit: Mar 30, 2008, 12:00am by hoyasaxact »

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Re: NCAA Regional Finals Discussion
« Reply #23 on Mar 30, 2008, 12:03am »

Don't know. Jordan was darn competitive on defense too. Hansbrough is a terrible interior defender for a guy who gets so much praise. Guess he saves all his effort for one end of the court.

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Re: NCAA Regional Finals Discussion
« Reply #24 on Mar 30, 2008, 12:05am »

Mar 29, 2008, 10:41pm, hoyahebrew wrote:

I've heard him called a "dork" on this board a lot. I haven't seen such passion on the court since John Havlicek.

Was that a joke? Mourning showed as much passion and showed it on BOTH ends of the floor. But he was dismissed as a punk by the anti-Georgetow forces.

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Re: NCAA Regional Finals Discussion
« Reply #25 on Mar 30, 2008, 12:09am »

It is really an empty feeling to look at the remaining teams to figure out who to get behind, and I've basically decided to get behind teams that don't have punks. And, the crude part of it all is that it might mean cheering for Memphis or Texas over a UCLA and cheering for KU over UNC.

UCLA rubbed me the wrong way at the end of the A&M game by dunking at the end of regulation and then taunting and acting "hard." If we're Princeton on Steroids, they can be Pitt of the West.

The UNC-Hansbrough angle is so awful you can't even watch the game. And, it was made worse tonight coming from Bilas because he's one of the "good guys" and usually does not get caught up in this kind of nonsense.

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Re: NCAA Regional Finals Discussion
« Reply #26 on Mar 30, 2008, 2:10am »

Jay Bilas didn't see Michael Jordan as "competitive" because during Jordan's time at UNC--he was on teams that were BURYING Duke by so many points--the game often didn't require his services. Afterall--MJ was at UNC from 1982-84 seasons and Bilas at Duke from 83-86 seasons. I don't think Hansbrough is the worst player I've ever seen--he's a hustle guy, works hard, has improved, and deserves to be given credit for improvement. That is NOT my issue at all. Do I take issue with the inventive praise for him? Yes. Do I think if he were a "darker hue" from Big East he'd not be talked about in same manner? Yes. Nothing wrong with saying Hansbrough is having a strong season, has been a great fit for the UNC program, and has worked himself into a fine college player. It becomes over the top when you consider:

2 teams have a stranglehold on "National" awards. If a Duke/UNC player averages double digits--they are strongly under consideration for some All American team, or award. If they are a White player from either school--they get rewarded for things that can't be measured or overly praised/defended. Having to hear Hansbrough's "competitive greatness" is different then saying "he's the most competitive player EVER" and ignoring the numerous other players who compete as hard/if not more but don't outwardly show it on the court or make the game look easier due to their athletic abilities. Doesn't make you less competitive if you have the ability to make things look easy--that takes as much work in the gym as what Hansbrough does. Redick gets called a name--and it's "tragic"--Ewing gets called an "Ape" and it's response is from Bill Raftery and Len Berman and nobody else at ESPN. Laettner stomps on Aminu Timberlake and he's "just so competitive--took it a bit too far, but he's caught in moment". When it's Gerald Henderson giving a hard foul on Hansbrough who was in to pad stats, it's "uncalled for, a total thuggish move". There is a difference. Now maybe it's more of WHAT JERSEY COLORS these players wear--afterall we did get the infamous Duhon "What a Player, What a Man" line and Shane Battier was slurped as much by media for being "someone you would want your daughter to sleep--I mean marry" but it seems to be a bit over the top from some elements when it's Hansbrough and how his "intensity" is described--because nothing about his game is something we've not seen from THOUSANDS OF PLAYERS. He's a fine player, works hard, but he's a dork on the court--and that gets attention/rewarded/praised by the media as if your emotions matter. Did Hansbrough want the game anymore last year when he disappeared against Georgetown? No. Did the Hoyas want the game any more and compete any harder then Louisville did this year? No. So what is the change this year in inventing reasons to place Hansbrough on a level above his peers when fact is--he's doing a fine job on a great team this year, but now is being talked about as superior to anyone who has ever played in terms of competitiveness? Is CBS that concerned people aren't going to watch? Doubt it.

Realize that bringing race into this discussion will get panned--but it does have merit when you hear the announcing--and now that Hansbrough has been mentioned as being a superior competitor to Michael Jordan--I think it brings in much more merit. Measuring someone's competitive nature by their facial expressions/celebrations and by the fact they might make it appear as if they are working harder due to their lack of physical attributes or by breathing heavy after/in between plays is baloney. Hansbrough has won awards, he's on a very publicized/overpublicized team whose arrogance/fanbase thinks it's their birthright to win the National Title and every game--whether they are outplayed or not. They are a fine program, great team, have a fine coach, and great college players. I just laugh at how they get credit for things most guys of their "acclaim" are SUPPOSED TO DO/HAVE DONE/ARE DOING.

Oh well--I've made my point and hearing what was said tonight--even with what appears to be a fine/clutch performance, I'm glad I didn't watch and stand by the comments. Maybe it's not Hansbrough I despise--it's how the media inflates his stature in the sport and for that, I apologize to Hansbrough or those who praise his play on court--you have a strong point and it's my hatred for all things ACC/those who suck up anything that league promotes as gospel that influences my bias against all things UNC/ACC.

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Re: NCAA Regional Finals Discussion
« Reply #27 on Mar 30, 2008, 7:36am »

Mar 29, 2008, 11:48pm, RDF wrote:

You are BS-ing me Sleepy? They actually mentioned Hansbrough is more competitive then Michael Jordan? This is getting beyond ABSURD. I'd say Hansbrough is no more competitive then what Joakim Noah --but guess he was blessed with such "natural talent". ::)

Just glad I watched the "non competitive" Warriors-Nuggets playing tonight instead. Since guys who have natural talent can't be considered "competitive", I won't bother. You know--Allen Iverson doesn't compete on the court--he could give a rip. ::)

Yeah Bilas said that - he was referring to how MJ played in college. I guess he'd know since he played against him then, but it did seem a little over-the-top

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moe09
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Re: NCAA Regional Finals Discussion
« Reply #28 on Mar 30, 2008, 8:29am »

Say what you want about the comparisons to MJ, sure they're over the top, I agree, but there's no doubt that I would take Crazy T on my team any day. Yes, they're pouring on the accolades, but keep in mind the kid did just carry his team over Louisville. These are the things you can't teach. I didn't get to watch the game, haven't got to see him play this year, but this is the sort of player you need on your team if you are to get to the Final Four. Jeff did it for us last year. Absolutely said, look, I'm not going to have an early exit in this tournament, no way. Roy, not so much. Should Jeff have received the adulation that Hansbrough is receiving? I can't say, I haven't seen Hansbrough this year, but apparently he's been doing this all year for the Tarheels. So, sure, you can whine about how the analysts are gushing like little school girls over Hansbrough, or you can admit to yourself that you would've done just about anything for Roy to have that kind of motor, and for us to have a guy that you absolutely know is going to show up, night in, night out, without disappearing in games.

Look at all of the other Final Four schools from last year, each one had at least one player that became that leader for their team. For us, obviously, Jeff Green (without him we would've been at an early exit with Vanderbilt). Ohio State it was definitely Mike Conley Jr. UCLA, I'd say Collison. And Florida, pick whichever you'd like. Hoyas this year - 0. Not too hard to figure out.

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Re: NCAA Regional Finals Discussion
« Reply #29 on Mar 30, 2008, 8:54am »

Mar 30, 2008, 8:29am, moe09 wrote:

Say what you want about the comparisons to MJ, sure they're over the top, I agree, but there's no doubt that I would take Crazy T on my team any day. Yes, they're pouring on the accolades, but keep in mind the kid did just carry his team over Louisville. These are the things you can't teach. I didn't get to watch the game, haven't got to see him play this year, but this is the sort of player you need on your team if you are to get to the Final Four. Jeff did it for us last year. Absolutely said, look, I'm not going to have an early exit in this tournament, no way. Roy, not so much. Should Jeff have received the adulation that Hansbrough is receiving? I can't say, I haven't seen Hansbrough this year, but apparently he's been doing this all year for the Tarheels. So, sure, you can whine about how the analysts are gushing like little school girls over Hansbrough, or you can admit to yourself that you would've done just about anything for Roy to have that kind of motor, and for us to have a guy that you absolutely know is going to show up, night in, night out, without disappearing in games.

Look at all of the other Final Four schools from last year, each one had at least one player that became that leader for their team. For us, obviously, Jeff Green (without him we would've been at an early exit with Vanderbilt). Ohio State it was definitely Mike Conley Jr. UCLA, I'd say Collison. And Florida, pick whichever you'd like. Hoyas this year - 0. Not too hard to figure out.

Stop the revisionist nonsense concerning Jeff. He made one shot against Vanderbilt to win the game and half the folks would argue that he got away with a travel. Hansbrough, despite his superhype, goes at it all game in such a manner that his team does not have to rely on that final shot in the end because they beat you comfortably. Of course UNC plays a different system which calls for more possessions, more shot attempts and, yes, more aggression. Nonetheless Hansbrough brings it a lot more during games than Jeff did. We are talking about a three time First Team All American (or maybe he was only a second team All American his frosh year). No offense to Jeff but he made Third Team All American. Once. And to be honest you would never see Tyler disappear in games as Jeff did in losses to ODU, Oregon and at Duke as Jeff did his final season. And you certainly wouldn't see Tyler pull a disappearing act in a Final Four game as Jeff did against Ohio State. Never. If Tyler had a game in which he scored 8 points in such a game you can bet its either because he was saddled with fouls and only played for 10 minutes or because he went 3 for 16 from the floor or something. But he would never become invisible in such a game.

Part of this is the system, part of this is about the player. Give Tyler his due and stop putting Jeff on some pedestal as if he was playing at First Team level. And spare me the stuff about all the intangibles and such. Give me 20 and 10 over intangibles every day. I keep reading about the intangibles of David Padgett. Well, they weren't enough last night to overcome Hansbrough's 28 and 13.

I'm not excusing Roy either. I got something coming about him and the system and the failure of the two to work out well enough to advance the Hoyas deep into the tournament. But I must say that its absurd for people to say he failed to do what Jeff did considering Jeff at least had Roy to be the second main piece (and often the first main piece). If any of you think these Hoyas would have been all that more successful if Roy had left early and Jeff had to go at it alone are fooling yourselves. With the quality of big men in the BE this year no way would Jeff had been better off back in the five spot. The team would have been faster but also more vulnerable in the half court.

Fact is not one Hoya yet under III's reign has been First Team AA quality. There's no shame in that. But its the truth. Certainly no Hoya has been playing at Hansbrough's level even if a legit argument can be made that they had the talent to be just as good.

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Re: NCAA Regional Finals Discussion
« Reply #30 on Mar 30, 2008, 9:00am »

Mar 30, 2008, 2:10am, RDF wrote:

2 teams have a stranglehold on "National" awards. If a Duke/UNC player averages double digits--they are strongly under consideration for some All American team, or award. If they are a White player from either school--they get rewarded for things that can't be measured or overly praised/defended. Having to hear Hansbrough's "competitive greatness" is different then saying "he's the most competitive player EVER" and ignoring the numerous other players who compete as hard/if not more but don't outwardly show it on the court or make the game look easier due to their athletic abilities. Doesn't make you less competitive if you have the ability to make things look easy--that takes as much work in the gym as what Hansbrough does. Redick gets called a name--and it's "tragic"--Ewing gets called an "Ape" and it's response is from Bill Raftery and Len Berman and nobody else at ESPN. Laettner stomps on Aminu Timberlake and he's "just so competitive--took it a bit too far, but he's caught in moment". When it's Gerald Henderson giving a hard foul on Hansbrough who was in to pad stats, it's "uncalled for, a total thuggish move". There is a difference. Now maybe it's more of WHAT JERSEY COLORS these players wear--afterall we did get the infamous Duhon "What a Player, What a Man" line and Shane Battier was slurped as much by media for being "someone you would want your daughter to sleep--I mean marry" but it seems to be a bit over the top from some elements when it's Hansbrough and how his "intensity" is described--because nothing about his game is something we've not seen from THOUSANDS OF PLAYERS. He's a fine player, works hard, but he's a dork on the court--and that gets attention/rewarded/praised by the media as if your emotions matter. Did Hansbrough want the game anymore last year when he disappeared against Georgetown? No. Did the Hoyas want the game any more and compete any harder then Louisville did this year? No. So what is the change this year in inventing reasons to place Hansbrough on a level above his peers when fact is--he's doing a fine job on a great team this year, but now is being talked about as superior to anyone who has ever played in terms of competitiveness? Is CBS that concerned people aren't going to watch? Doubt it.

Some good stuff. I must say that I do believe its more about the UNC/Duke jerseys than it is the race of the players. I mean Jason Williams and Shane Battier got the hype too. Still I will concede Vitale and crew seem to get most animated when the players are white (Reddick and Hansbrough were slurped like no other).

But the most annoying thing is how playing for Duke and UNC gives you the leg up for Defensive Player of the Year. I mean didn't Wojo win that award while Boubacar Aw never got any serious consideration for it? ::)

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Re: NCAA Regional Finals Discussion
« Reply #31 on Mar 30, 2008, 10:11am »

Hate to see the racist angle being introduced here, using code words to describe attributes of white and black players. A lot of jealousy going on here, too. If we would have advanced, the only talk would be of how we would stop the Jayhawks today.

As I've said earlier, the real disgrace in our program was showing off a white academic advisor sitting next to a coach on the bench, giving the image out that those black players were serious about their education. The players, themselves, were the ones trivialized and degraded. Also, Pops walking off the court in Landover in public protest over the NCAA's plan to raise minimum standards, was an insult to white and black players alike. Guys like Hibbert and Wallace don't need to have their academic achievements publicized.

So describing whether a player is a "natural" or "cerebral" seems pale in comparison.

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Re: NCAA Regional Finals Discussion
« Reply #32 on Mar 30, 2008, 11:46am »

Mar 30, 2008, 10:11am, hoyahebrew wrote:

Hate to see the racist angle being introduced here, using code words to describe attributes of white and black players. A lot of jealousy going on here, too. If we would have advanced, the only talk would be of how we would stop the Jayhawks today.

As I've said earlier, the real disgrace in our program was showing off a white academic advisor sitting next to a coach on the bench, giving the image out that those black players were serious about their education. The players, themselves, were the ones trivialized and degraded. Also, Pops walking off the court in Landover in public protest over the NCAA's plan to raise minimum standards, was an insult to white and black players alike. Guys like Hibbert and Wallace don't need to have their academic achievements publicized.

So describing whether a player is a "natural" or "cerebral" seems pale in comparison.

I held off bringing up this angle because I didn't want to believe it--but then again--Jay Bilas talks of Hansbrough being more "competitive" then Michael Jordan--and I presented why this would be a bit different. See to those young enough to not have remembered CBB prior to 1990's--Duke used to SUCK. I mean the UNC-Duke games during MJ's career--they weren't considered anything of importance because UNC would squash Duke like a grape, was the dominant program, and Duke was just beginning to change the culture of their program. Duke had tradition/success prior to K, but they were awful during his early years--and Bilas class began their move towards what you see today. So comparing Jordan to Hansbrough in regards to Bilas "personal experience"--that has to be factored in.

The issue I have with Hansbrough--and maybe as I brought up later in the discussion--is if he was a Black Player in Big East, Big 10, Big XII, would he be talked about in same light? I say no. Michael Beasley has set a record for numbers this year--double doubles, he plays on a team that demanded his performance to even consider winning--and as a true FR he backed it up--yet it's discarded. Now isn't that a sign of consistent intensity? Or is it a sign that being skilled, fluid, and making game look easy punishes you? Throw in fact he's at Kansas State and not UNC. Hansbrough was a highly decorated/ranked recruit-this isn't a Roy Hibbert case-where he was debated/doubted--everyone expected him to perform--so what gives? Why the over the top praise? I understand the compliments/praise but why is he now placed amongst the all time players? I've seen guys like Hansbrough for my 2 decades following the sport and they come and go. Is it all UNC aided or if Hansbrough played at Kansas State would he be getting more "credit" due to his color? I say it sure doesn't hurt him--if Adam Morrison was going against Beasley--who would win? The fact Morrison plays at "Gonzaga" would be his trump over Beasley's and it's always something.

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Re: NCAA Regional Finals Discussion
« Reply #33 on Mar 30, 2008, 12:16pm »

I agree that the praise for Hans is excessive - my wife and I got to yelling at the TV announcers last night to just stop it already. And I think part of the reason that white guys sometimes get more than their share of praise is that they have been for quite a while in the minority on the basketball court. (And, yes, I'm well aware of the racism that kept the sport white at the big schools for WAY too long in the 50s and 60s.) It got where it was pretty unusual to see more than one white all-American, for instance, since the 80s. That seems to be changing a little now, and maybe it will become less of a novelty if it continues, and garner less over-the-top praise.

But Hans can play on my team anytime he wants, even if his skin turns purple.

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Re: NCAA Regional Finals Discussion
« Reply #34 on Mar 30, 2008, 12:36pm »

Anyone watching has to admit that Hansbrough is a great college player RIGHT NOW - the flopping and the trips to the line in the past are just that, in the past. He is playing well and carrying his team right now. Having said that, it is sometimes difficult to admit this and overcome the natural and understandable backlash that one may feel because of all this BS "effort" and "competitor" stuff from the talking heads and writers.

The kids plays hard and is a competitor. So what. So are tons of other players, and the over-the-top talk about him is just nonsense. I like Bilas a lot, but he is also playing into it, and trivialing Hansbrough's talents in order to play up the competitiveness angle. It had been getting old for a long time, and it is now completely overboard.

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Re: NCAA Regional Finals Discussion
« Reply #35 on Mar 30, 2008, 12:53pm »

Mar 30, 2008, 8:54am, MCIGuy wrote:

Mar 30, 2008, 8:29am, moe09 wrote:

Say what you want about the comparisons to MJ, sure they're over the top, I agree, but there's no doubt that I would take Crazy T on my team any day. Yes, they're pouring on the accolades, but keep in mind the kid did just carry his team over Louisville. These are the things you can't teach. I didn't get to watch the game, haven't got to see him play this year, but this is the sort of player you need on your team if you are to get to the Final Four. Jeff did it for us last year. Absolutely said, look, I'm not going to have an early exit in this tournament, no way. Roy, not so much. Should Jeff have received the adulation that Hansbrough is receiving? I can't say, I haven't seen Hansbrough this year, but apparently he's been doing this all year for the Tarheels. So, sure, you can whine about how the analysts are gushing like little school girls over Hansbrough, or you can admit to yourself that you would've done just about anything for Roy to have that kind of motor, and for us to have a guy that you absolutely know is going to show up, night in, night out, without disappearing in games.

Look at all of the other Final Four schools from last year, each one had at least one player that became that leader for their team. For us, obviously, Jeff Green (without him we would've been at an early exit with Vanderbilt). Ohio State it was definitely Mike Conley Jr. UCLA, I'd say Collison. And Florida, pick whichever you'd like. Hoyas this year - 0. Not too hard to figure out.

Stop the revisionist nonsense concerning Jeff. He made one shot against Vanderbilt to win the game and half the folks would argue that he got away with a travel. Hansbrough, despite his superhype, goes at it all game in such a manner that his team does not have to rely on that final shot in the end because they beat you comfortably. Of course UNC plays a different system which calls for more possessions, more shot attempts and, yes, more aggression. Nonetheless Hansbrough brings it a lot more during games than Jeff did. We are talking about a three time First Team All American (or maybe he was only a second team All American his frosh year). No offense to Jeff but he made Third Team All American. Once. And to be honest you would never see Tyler disappear in games as Jeff did in losses to ODU, Oregon and at Duke as Jeff did his final season. And you certainly wouldn't see Tyler pull a disappearing act in a Final Four game as Jeff did against Ohio State. Never. If Tyler had a game in which he scored 8 points in such a game you can bet its either because he was saddled with fouls and only played for 10 minutes or because he went 3 for 16 from the floor or something. But he would never become invisible in such a game.

Part of this is the system, part of this is about the player. Give Tyler his due and stop putting Jeff on some pedestal as if he was playing at First Team level. And spare me the stuff about all the intangibles and such. Give me 20 and 10 over intangibles every day. I keep reading about the intangibles of David Padgett. Well, they weren't enough last night to overcome Hansbrough's 28 and 13.

I'm not excusing Roy either. I got something coming about him and the system and the failure of the two to work out well enough to advance the Hoyas deep into the tournament. But I must say that its absurd for people to say he failed to do what Jeff did considering Jeff at least had Roy to be the second main piece (and often the first main piece). If any of you think these Hoyas would have been all that more successful if Roy had left early and Jeff had to go at it alone are fooling yourselves. With the quality of big men in the BE this year no way would Jeff had been better off back in the five spot. The team would have been faster but also more vulnerable in the half court.

Fact is not one Hoya yet under III's reign has been First Team AA quality. There's no shame in that. But its the truth. Certainly no Hoya has been playing at Hansbrough's level even if a legit argument can be made that they had the talent to be just as good.

MCI, I wasn't trying to be a Jeff revisionist in any sense of the word. You take my tone much differently than I intended. Rather, I was comparing two performances in the tournament (thus putting it forth as a question)... In fact, I'm in agreement with you, I don't understand why people question the accolades the kid is receiving. Sure, they're over the top, but I think that's to be expected (yes, especially as a white kid from the ACC, but that wasn't where I was going with this). Instead of saying Jeff is in the same league as Hansbrough I rather agree with you, that it seems there are some sour grapes on this board, and Hansbrough is playing pretty well. I'm not by any means saying that Jeff deserved to be first team All-American or first team anything. Instead, it was kind of a comparison between an ACC player and a Big East player who have both received praise, and who have taken their teams far in the tournament. I don't think they're necessarily comparable, but it was just an attempt for a recent snapshot. (However, don't tell me that Tyler wouldn't have disappeared against Ohio State as though it was fact, he seemed to at the end against the Hoyas, didn't he?)

As for what I was saying about Jeff. I was simply saying that it's kids like these that come up in big moments that keep teams playing late into March. Did Jeff do that all year for the Hoyas? No. Did he do it at certain points when we needed it? Big East Tournament, NCAAs? Yes. Am I saying he would have done it this year without Roy? No. Never said that. Simply saying he did it when we needed it (except in the Final Four, notice I only said "deep into the tournament"), and it wasn't done this year when we needed it. Yet, Hansbrough does do it. He does it all the time. There's something to be said for that. Does it need to be over the top? No. Should it be said? Yes. The kid definitely deserves praise, and more praise than what would seemingly be deserved of any current Big East players. At least until one of them wills their team to the Final Four. It's a part of the system, sure, but it's also a part of the talent, will, and (consistent) level of play. So, I'm sorry I came across in the wrong way, but instead I tend to agree with you that the kid deserves some praise.

« Last Edit: Mar 30, 2008, 12:59pm by moe09 »

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"The preseason poll is, for lack of a better way to put it, it's a popularity contest," Georgetown Coach John Thompson III said. "Once the ball goes up in the air in a couple of weeks, and once we start playing each other, we'll be able to sift through and see where we really stand."

vamosalaplaya
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Re: NCAA Regional Finals Discussion
« Reply #36 on Mar 30, 2008, 1:08pm »

I have a ten year old son who enjoys basketball. Tyler Hansbrough is a great role model for one reason among all others - the guy never stops - never gives up - and I talk about that whenever he is on TV. I thought last nights game was pretty well-reffed overall. Lousville was certainly allowed to be aggressive in their run.

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guru
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Re: NCAA Regional Finals Discussion
« Reply #37 on Mar 30, 2008, 1:40pm »

So let me get this straight: There are some people on this board who are surprised that there might be a double standard applied to college basketball players, according to whether they are black or white? Did those people just move to this country? Is it worth pointing out and ranting about OVER and OVER again?

Hansbrough was the best college basketball player in the country this year. If that Editedes you off because he's white or because he plays for a team or in a conference you don't like, that's really a personal issue, but you're not going to convince people here you're right by repeating the argument ad nauseum.

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joey0403p
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Re: NCAA Regional Finals Discussion
« Reply #38 on Mar 30, 2008, 1:59pm »

It is always difficult to introduce / discuss racism in sports. At g town I think it is esspecially tough given that ours is a predominantly (if not completely) minority team supported by a predominantly non minority student population. (watch any of our games on tv and it doesn't look like there are anything other than white guys and girls in the student section.) Its one of the reasons I enjoy when Mike Wilbon / Tony K discuss these things because they have a white guy and a black guy who know eachother well enough that they aren't worried about what they may "sound" like.
That said I think there is something to this argument when speaking about Hans. In my opinion in white basketball players get a lot of attention when they are good. Superlatives are heaped on them. Call it unconscious bias or pulling for the underdog or just call it racist. I think a lot has to do with the underdog / unconscious stuff. So I don't think you can just ignore that.
Now on the other side - UNC is basketball "royalty". Good players at 'blue chip' programs get slurped reguardless of race. Hans is a very good player. He has his faults like anyone else - but the guy can play.
So you add up the fact he is white, goes to UNC and is very good. THat is three factors and he gets slurped a lot.

IF he was black in a big east school like Pitt, or G town he would still get slurped. Maybe not as much (i can't think of a good example to compare him too). But the guy would get slurped if his team was in the elite 8 last year, final 4 this year, conference tourney champs reguardless of race.

So I guess I am saying race probably plays into it... but its not the only thing.

Lastly - I hate him. But would ahve loved if he played for g town. (oh and more competitive than jordan...? I only know him from the NBA and it isn't even close - but that has more to due with everyone's short memories about the greatest being in the hear and now...)

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moe09
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Re: NCAA Regional Finals Discussion
« Reply #39 on Mar 30, 2008, 2:51pm »

Mar 30, 2008, 1:40pm, guru wrote:

So let me get this straight: There are some people on this board who are surprised that there might be a double standard applied to college basketball players, according to whether they are black or white? Did those people just move to this country? Is it worth pointing out and ranting about OVER and OVER again?

Hansbrough was the best college basketball player in the country this year. If that Editedes you off because he's white or because he plays for a team or in a conference you don't like, that's really a personal issue, but you're not going to convince people here you're right by repeating the argument ad nauseum.

I don't think anyone is denying that Hansbrough is at least one of the best college basketball players in the country this year. What they are denying is that the ridiculous amounts of praise he is receiving are fair, partly because of race, partly because he plays in a league where there are an abundance (relatively speaking) of good white players who get slurped on all the time. If it doesn't interest you that white players are treated differently than black players, then I think that would be a personal issue you might need to deal with yourself, whether the allegation is true or not.

Personally, I think Hansbrough is a great player. Haven't been able to see him play much this year since I'm out of the country, but I must admit that I was fairly shocked when I heard that they were planning on retiring his jersey at UNC, and he was spoken of as an Adonis of basketball by Roy Williams. Yet, 23.1 and 10.5 a season is not bad by any means. If you added a national championship to that, or at least a Final Four or Championship game, I don't think anyone will question his jersey up in the rafters. Plus, it's true that the kid just doesn't stop. As for the comparison to Jordan (in college, I'm guessing it was? Obviously didn't get to hear it. Regardless), let's not get carried away here...

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"The preseason poll is, for lack of a better way to put it, it's a popularity contest," Georgetown Coach John Thompson III said. "Once the ball goes up in the air in a couple of weeks, and once we start playing each other, we'll be able to sift through and see where we really stand."